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Below are some letters and testimonies from fans that were close to Michael for decades. Some spent one on one time with him many times, right up until he was murdered.

There were more but this is all i could find on my computer which i had saved from couple years back. They and We knew the “This Is It” Movie was a film of a dying man tortured to death by AEG executives.

When the “Movie” was in production fans were speaking up against it, but they were discredited, now more then 3 years later the truth is finally coming out via the wrongful death lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court.

AEG didn’t care about a human being, a father/brother/son, a World Icon, the greatest human to have ever walked this planet, there will never be another like Michael Jackson!!

Those that worked on this production knew what was happening, they not only let it happen, They have lied for years after the fact so they can make money, and stay on the “good side” of AEG Live, Randy Phillips, Paul Gongaware, Tim Woolley, Tim Leiweke, Shawn Trell +. Namely Kenny Ortega, Travis Payne, and MANY MORE have BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS!

Sandy has worked tirelessly with our team on two major projects, can be found here https://twitter.com/seeskaper

Some notes taken from Talitha’s website http://www.michaeljacksonthelastangel.com Her twitter https://twitter.com/talithafluttrby

“This is It”  Fans Letters given to Michael Jackson May 24th 2009

The Shameful Truth about Michael’s so called “fans” Please read, share and give Helena our support by leaving her our messages of love and support on the link below…

JACKSON lawsuit against AEG and the FUTURE in the hands of Michael Jackson’s FANS
APRIL 29, 2013

by Vindicatemj (Helena)

Recently I went to the MJJ Community forum to find out the latest news about the trial. What I found there surpassed anything I could ever imagine – those active in the thread about the AEG trial were pouring hate and spite on the heads of Katherine Jackson and her family without saying a single word of reproach to AEG.

The pretext was a plausible one – they don’t want the media to trash Michael Jackson’s good name, only in order to do it they are ready to let go of the company which actually brought about Michael’s death.

DEATH and CHARACTER ASSASSINATION

In their opinion the company is not to blame (“it is business, you know”) and the one who is to blame is the man’s own mother who lost her son and wants some justice and legitimate questions answered (“she is an enemy and her family sucks”).

They cannot wait to see Katherine on the stand to see her “web of lies exposed” and hope that AEG is “doing their homework well”. In fact losing the case to AEG is the outcome many are even hoping for. They advise AEG on how to form their strategy and reduce the amount of money for this greedy woman in case of the catastrophe of her winning the case:

AEG’s strategy should be to go after her and her real motivations for filing this lawsuit.

By showing her contradictions and lies to the jurors, AEG might be able to reduce the amount of money (in case AEG loses) jurors are willing to award Katherine. If AEG shows the lies, contradictions, Katherine’s own responsibility to MJ, her greediness for money will portray her in bad light, so I think it might help AEG reduce the amount she’ll be awarded if any, at least I hope so.

Do these people know what they doing?

Most of them do not. They were brainwashed by AEG’s propaganda into thinking that poor AEG “has to” drown Michael Jackson in order to defend itself and it will be solely Michael’s mother who will be to blame for it.

However assassinating the son in order to defend oneself from his parents’ accusations is absolutely not a necessity. And character assassination of Michael Jackson is what AEG is actually doing.

Shifting all the blame onto Michael’s mother is top hypocrisy and the most shameless deceit. If character assassination of Michael Jackson is the only argument AEG can present to the jury to explain their negligence towards him it means that there is nothing else they have to say in their defense.

Some fans advise Katherine Jackson, “stay quiet, know your place, take it as it is, the estate is paying you money so what else do you want?” And the loudest call for punishing Michael’s mother, want her to get what she “deserves” and are ready to be at full service of AEG’s lawyers to drown in mud both this woman and her “deadbeat cubs” whom they detest and despise.

And all this in the name of preserving Michael Jackson’s legacy.

What disgusting hypocrisy and disgusting way of thinking of those who call themselves “fans” of Michael Jackson.

These people think and impose on others the idea that it is all about money and pretend not to know that there might be other concepts like “justice”, “dignity”, “loss”, “pain” and other similar motives which may be driving other people in their search for the truth – Katherine Jackson, for example.

It is indeed deplorable that due to some circumstances Katherine is unable to have her case handled by the criminal court – filing criminal charges against AEG is not her prerogative and all attempts in this respect have evidently failed. It is also very unfortunate that her civil suit against the company was stripped of its many crucial points. It is equally sad that a much more substantiated Joe Jackson’s suit in its amended version was dismissed for a reason that two members of the family cannot sue one company and that Katherine’s suit was chosen over Joe’s as hers came prior to Joe’s.

Now the whole AEG case is hanging on one thread only – that of AEG negligently hiring Murray. And it isn’t Katherine’s fault that everything else was dismissed – it is her tragedy that the legal system closed its eyes on many of the key matters and dismissed the charges which could have been of real significance to the case.

Living where I live makes me perfectly aware of how difficult it is to fight the system which nips in the bud every single voice of dissent. So I can imagine how difficult it is to beat a multi-billion corporation which has numerous ways of influencing decisions in a place where they are also seen by many as a local tzar.

Only one little hope has been left now and this hope is that at least through their contract with Murray the AEG corporation will answer for driving Michael Jackson to death by their “business” which boiled down to making maximal profit on Michael’s name, humiliatng him and ignoring his requests and decisions, and the eventual taking advantage of him and his genius.

THE JURY

Who will be to blame if Katherine loses? AEG’s propaganda machine of course because the jury are human beings too and may also be brainwashed by AEG’s daily character assassination of Michael Jackson. They do not live in a vacuum and are susceptible to public opinion too which may be a totally involuntary process.

The more the public and the media tell them horror stories about Michael and the more Michael’s “fans” trash his mother for her claims against AEG, the less they will be inclined to sympathize with Michael himself and his bereaved mother.

So when the MJJ Community “Senior Staff” was telling me that the jury will be guided by the truth of the matter only and what people say in their forum is in no way influencing public opinion it was a very big lie and an utterly hypocritical statement.

In fact what is more or less forgivable for ordinary fans who have lost their way in the jungles of AEG and media propaganda is not forgivable for the forum Senior Staff who are big professionals and are therefore perfectly aware that their alleged unbiased approach and their quiet nod to the incessant dirt against Katherine on the forum pages is creating a big slant in favor of AEG, which this corporation will undoubtedly appreciate.

SENIOR STAFF

Disbelieving the picture of ruthless Katherine’s harassment I saw on the AEG thread of the MJJ Community forum I finally expressed my astonishment why some fans were advising AEG lawyers how to form their strategy against Katherine and wondered whether they understood what they were doing.

You won’t believe the effect this small remark produced on the Senior Staff maintaining this forum. They dropped everything they were doing and handled my humble persona only.

They behaved as if it was totally unnatural for a Michael Jackson supporter to say a word of support for Michael’s mother and say a word of truth against AEG. While everyone was trashing Katherine it was perfectly okay for the Senior Staff to keep silent, but when I raised my voice against AEG I was immediately restrained not to violate the “innocent until proven” formula.

AEG is innocent to these people while Katherine Jackson is evidently already guilty like hell.

What it means is that in a fan forum which by definition should be biased in favor of Michael’s opinion everything is happening exactly the opposite way – support of AEG is encouraged and protected from stray people like me, but Michael’s own views about AEG are disregarded and trashing his mother sees no objection as “the world of humans is far from ideal”, you know.

Of course it is in the power of the Senior Staff admins to correct human nature a bit, however they refrain themselves from this task.

The opinion of Senior Staff is actively supported by other proud members of the community (“proud” in terms of regalia and status) and this means that even four years after Michael’s death the forum is so masterfully maintained that up till now its ordinary members do not realize what horrible harm AEG did to Michael Jackson and that it was actually them who contributed to his death.

In fact even Michael’s own words about what AEG did to him are no guidance for these people:

I’m really angry with them booking me up to do 50 shows. I only wanted to do 10, and take the tour around the world to other cities, not 50 in one place. I went to bed knowing I sold 10 dates, and woke up to the news I was booked to do 50.”

Neglecting Michael’s wishes and ignoring his opinion was actually typical of AEG‘s attitude towards Michael but is generally untypical of Michael’s fans. However if you remind these fans of all the “good” AEG did to Michael they will defiantly reply that they are not to be told what to think, even if you are expressing your opinion only and never use the word “should”.

The “innocent until proven guilty” formula itself is perfectly correct, even in application to AEG Live, only the Senior Staff does not explain why in order to implement this formula it is indispensable to drag through the mud the other side of the dispute and why a simple balance of forces is not being maintained there – Michael’s mother and family may be freely trashed, ridiculed and stigmatized while a single voice elaborating on the legitimate claims against AEG should be almost immediately silenced.

This is equivalent to allowing on TV only Michael Jackson’s detractors and denying any chance to his supporters before the 2005 trial, only in the reverse variant of course, as the party to defend itself this time is AEG Live.

And yes, the only person telling the truth about AEG was silenced there – they blocked me as they simply could not tolerate my voice against AEG for more than two days running and my questions were regarded by them as an unbearable insult to their morality.

“IT WAS ONLY BUSINESS”

The people in the forum do not have any claims to AEG as they regard it as “only business”. In their opinion AEG could demand anything of Michael in the same way an employer demands discipline at their workplace.

However for some reason their efficient Senior Staff failed to explain them that Michael was not in AEG’s employment – he was AEG’s partner who was also supposed to pay full production costs and was guaranteeing the show by the duty to repay all $40 million back in case something went wrong.

A partner is no employee. The most that can be expected of a partner is fulfillment of his obligations under the contract and nothing else than that. And Michael’s obligation was to do only a first-class show and not a rehearsal. If they considered his performance second class they could complain, but not before that.

So it was solely Michael’s business how to get ready for the tour and AEG could not demand anything of him, let alone set him conditions, read riot acts and declare tough love threatening to “pull the plug” if he did not oblige.

In short even though AEG behaved like masters towards Michael Jackson he was not in their employment. In contrast to that Conrad Murray was to report to AEG as he was to perform their services as “requested”, and they were to make sure he did nothing else but what was expected of him. However exactly this AEG failed to do. Instead they monitored Michael Jackson though in his case they had no right to.

In short both contracts were twisted and adjusted to their immediate needs. Where they were obliged to interfere they did not, and where they had no right to interfere they did.

Michael’s word could be trusted because he himself was fully answering for the shows by all his assets. Yes, by ALL of them because if Michael did not repay the first $40 million back in case of a cancellation AEG was to sue him for loss of profit and 50 vacant dates. The latter sum would be some $100 million even by the lowest estimate on the basis of the average face value tickets of $80-$100 per seat in a 20,000 seat O2Arena and the number of shows being 50.

Michael’s own and his children’s well-being were the best guarantee that he would perform – so all talk by the media and AEG about the possibility of his “freaking out” was malicious speculation which actually betrayed their innermost hopes – they themselves were most interested in cancellations and hoped to implement this variant at the first opportunity that presented itself.

And while they were actually dragging their feet Michael was already rehearsing “his ass off” at home and in the studios without the crew yet joining him. Some sources say that he began training as early as March 2009. And if Michael preferred individual rehearsals to public ones I can perfectly understand him too – being a perfectionist and shy after 12 years of non-performing Michael wanted to show himself to the public at his best, when he was absolutely sure of his skills or felt well enough to perform.

The owner of CenterStaging in Burbank says Michael started working in March 2009 (while AEG as you remember hired Ortega and dancers only in May):

“He was trying, and succeeding, in structuring the biggest, most spectacular live production ever seen,” said Johnny Caswell, co-owner of CenterStaging in Burbank, California, where Jackson worked on the show from late March to early June before shifting rehearsals to larger venues, according to the paper. “By the time he left my facility, he had graduated through several studios and was on a soundstage taking up 10,000 square feet,” Caswell said. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/michael-jacksons-last-tour-rehearsal-details-revealed.jhtml

Michael had to both build his stamina and spare his energy for the shows, and his individual plan of getting ready for them was not to be disputed. No one could know better than him when he was ready and no one should have imposed any conditions on him in this respect. His refreshed skills were demonstrated in their full brilliance at the last two rehearsals and even if Michael was ready to or wanted to perform full scale only on the days of his choice his desire should have been fully respected.

His schedule was his individual business which he alone was structuring for himself and absolutely no one was allowed to encroach on its secret formula. The most they could ask of him was attending the rehearsals for making decisions over some production issues as he was also a co-director of the show (yes, he was though you would have never guessed it by the way they treated him), but as to the dancing and singing he could have perfectly watched everything off stage. Twisting Michael’s arms and setting him conditions wasn’t “business” – it was encroaching on his most fundamental rights.

I repeat – under their own contract Michael’s sole obligation was to do a first class show and not a rehearsal, and all claims to Michael could have been made only after the first show. AEG would not have lost anything this way as the ultimate responsibility for the shows was still lying on Michael’s shoulders.

However simple explanations like the above are for some reason regarded by the Senior Staff of the fan forum as unacceptable. You are either accused of hypocrisy (for criticizing others for criticizing Katherine but allowing oneself to criticize AEG) or will be instructed not to digress and keep to the lawsuit on Murray and AEG which is the current topic.

However when you did speak on the current topic and mentioned that Murray spent half the night exchanging emails with insurers and this was done following AEG’s requests, this was not approved either. You can never please the Senior Staff of the forum as absolutely nothing of what you say is suiting these people.

TWO INSURANCES, TWO DOCUMENTS

Under his contract with AEG Murray was supposed to perform only the services requested by the Producer. This explained in whose employment Murray was and whose instructions he was really following. Kathy Jorrie mentioned at Murray’s trial that Murray wanted to perform services for Michael Jackson, but the final contract still stuck to the Producer variant preferred by AEG.

So when at the end of June Kathy Jorrie, AEG’s lawyer asked Murray to take care of Michael’s medical records, Murray obliged and took care of it not paying attention to his patient. This absolutely does NOT absolve him of his guilt as under NO circumstances he was to leave his patient, but the fact still remains that Murray did spend half the night when Michael Jackson died running on errands from AEG.

The discussion over the reasons why AEG needed a second medical examination was the most heated discussion I had with the Senior Staff which made me wonder why my views over this issue were so vehemently opposed.

The Senior Staff explained that this was Lloyds’s condition from the very beginning of the deal, and I said that it was not. We were talking about two different documents – the first insurance had been ready by the London news-conference in March already. It covered the first 10 shows and according to Randy Phillips himself was firmly in their pocket (which means that no addition physical examination was required).

And the second insurance policy replacing the first was made in April and had to be arranged due to AEG increasing the shows. The Insurance Journal explained that the policy was signed in April:

By Anthony McCartney | June 7, 2011

Underwriters at Lloyd’s of London sued AEG Live and Jackson’s company, claiming the concert promoter has failed to provide necessary medical information and details about the physician charged with the singer’s death.
The suit states Lloyd’s issued a non-appearance and concert cancellation policy in April 2009 — roughly two months before the pop superstar died.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news…/07/201668.htm

The second insurance was half-obtained for 30 dates only and had several new conditions set by the insurers – like medical records, a new medical examination and doctors attending the rehearsals, and it was this new AEG’s policy which Murray was so unsuccessfully attending to in the night of Michael’s death.

The Senior Staff sneered that I doubted the veracity of Lloyd’s documents, and I said that I didn’t – they simply presented the final variant of the insurance policy as there was no need to present the first, however only two consecutive insurance polices can explain why already in March Randy Phillips was talking of the insurance as a fully decided matter and later one some half-finished document suddenly appeared.

If 10 dates were later corrected and turned into 30 where can I see the corrections please in the final document presented by Lloyd’s? And since there are none, it is clear that the final policy is a separate document. The first one was probably cancelled as too many terms had to be changed, and this first insurance policy we have never seen.

If they had not increased the shows there would have been no need of the new insurance, and Murray would not have been running with the papers on the night Michael died.

In addition to the above the first insurance policy also proves that Michael agreed only to 10 shows, however at this stage the Senior Staff was already warning me that I do not listen to what I am being told and it was evidently then that my future on their fan forum was already decided.

The Senior Staff told me that increase or no increase it was not unimportant anyway. I disagreed. The number is extremely important as firstly, 50 shows were decided without Michael knowledge and this testifies to how neglectful of Michael’s opinion AEG was, and secondly, it sent Michael into a tremendous stress immediately after that London press conference as a result of which he lost all sleep.

It was due to this terrible stress-factor that he could no longer sleep naturally and badly required Propofol. If there had been no increase and no stress there was a chance that Michael would have gone without it at all.

This was met with a point blank question from Senior Staff how I can explain that Michael always used Propofol (why are they so sure of it I wonder?) and why Michael took drugs before the show described by Cascio.

By then it looked like a full-time interrogation either on a Topix forum or in the courtroom presided by the Senior AEG Staff, but I nevertheless answered – if Michael went for a rehab in 1993 for Demerol it does not necessarily mean that he used it in 2009 (no traces of it were found in his body), and the situation with Propofol is the same.

If Michael did use Propofol some time before it does not mean that in this particular case he would have done it too. When in Ireland he did not use it, when in Las Vegas he did not use it, and if he had had a comfortable schedule of 2 shows a week at the most there was a chance that he woud not have used it now either (or at least in case of emergency only).

ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS DO AS HE REQUESTED

In fact this is the essence of my main claim to AEG. All they had to do was listen to Michael and do as he requested. Tohme and Gongaware knew of Michael’s insomnia full well (who didn’t?) however they intentionally ignored his wishes and set the impossible regimen of the shows for every other day.

The regimen sent Michael into a shock and it was then that his huge stress started. It lasted for full four months until his dying day. Witnesses say that after realizing how grueling the schedule was Michael fell into a panic and it was this pressure that killed him:

Pressure of 50-concerts killed Michael Jackson, says his old pal

“He thought there were going to be ten dates as announced. But then all of a sudden Tohme, along with Randy Phillips, president of organisers AEG, had arranged 20, 30 then 50 dates. But when Michael realised his schedule, he began to panic. It was one show after another, with hardly any days off. He should never have been tied to so many, especially a guy who dances through more than half of his set,” he added. (ANI) http://entertainment.gaeatimes.com/2…old-pal-12427/

You won’t believe it but the way AEG fully ignored Michael’s wishes did not produce any impression on any of the people in this fan forum courtroom. Some said “nevermind” to the number and regimen of the shows, some said that the claims of the show/day-off pattern were false but they did not care anyway, and some said that 50 shows were for 9 months, evidently implying that the average number was 5-6 dates per month.

This reminded me of Randy Phillips’ formula that “on the average” it was a very comfortable schedule which was probably the way it was presented to Michael Jackson too, only the “average” numbers do not mean anything and are terribly misleading – the number of shows the fifty-year old Jackson was to perform following a show/day-off/show/day-off regimen was actually 38 as this schedule shows:

First they set 10 dates, then added 16 more. All show/day-off dates are in bold type except those which come after a period longer than 1 day. If you add them up you will have 38 shows following the show/day-off schedule:

July 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30
August 1, 3, 10, 12, 17, 19, 24, 26, 28, 30
September 1, 3, 6, 8, 10.

A few days later 24 more were added:

September – 21, 23, 27, 29
January 7, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 23, 25, 27, 29
February 1, 3, 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24

At this point the Senior Staff was already seriously annoyed by me and said it was time to return to the main topic. I said I thought it was exactly the main topic.

AEG ignored Michael’s most fundamental request – he just wanted enough time for sleep between the shows, however they created a schedule which for Michael with his insomnia was impossible to implement.

In short if there had been no stress about the future he would have not asked for Propofol already then, at the stage of rehearsals, and nothing would have happened on June 25.

Michael’s death was predetermined at the time when AEG and Tohme were ruthlessly setting the schedule the way they liked best, totally disregarding Michael’s insomnia problems. And what is especially abhorrent is that they did it intentionally as both knew of Michael’s troubles, worries and requests.

And if the Senior Staff of the fan forum does not care about it, it does not mean that Michael’s mother does not – she does care and very much so. Since AEG Live drove Michael Jackson into that stress INTENTIONALLY she wants them to answer for it – in this or that way, even if it is only money which is at stake (which is probably the only language AEG Live is able to understand).

If these “fans” were bothered about the way AEG treated Michael Jackson they would also care about those dates, however they are evidently paying lip service to him only and all their worries about Michael’s tarnished image are mere pretence on their part. I expressed this idea to the Senior Staff but by then yours truly was already blocked.

What they are doing there now I don’t know – most probably they go on trashing Katherine for her audacity to sue AEG. They are surely standing on the guard of AEG’s innocence and are evidently still of the opinion that Michael’s mother is the only person who ever sued.

The Senior Staff does not approve of suing in general and to tell you the truth I don’t either. However in the absence of a possibility to put AEG behind the bars the civil suit is okay too.

THE FUTURE

The jury are also human beings. The more AEG propaganda they hear the more of it they will absorb. And tomorrow this propaganda will be blasting from every cannon possible – from the press, TV and commentators like Diane Dimond. This cannonade will unfortunately not bypass the jurors. In the courtroom they will also be subjected to a barrage of tabloid horror stories told to them by AEG thus turning the trial into a freakish show.

Will it be Katherine’s guilt? Absolutely not. The media reaction is nothing of Katherine’s doing and is solely done by those who harassed her son for many years and the powerful corporation which contributed to Michael’s death and used him for their own greedy ends.

Do fans have the right to drag Michael’s through the mud and tell her to shut up? And can you tell a parent of an assassinated child to keep quiet and don’t bother the assassins for fear that “it will be worse”? WHAT can be worse for a mother than losing her son?

Michael’s fans can be the only counter balance to the huge propaganda machine which is currently working against Michael’s mother, family and children. What will the jury think if they come to forums where Michael’s own fans are trashing the family and side with AEG? Could the poison spread there by Michael’s “fans” turn into that last touch necessary for the juror to take a decision that the case is bogus and AEG is not to blame? This outcome is very much possible and those who guide the fans in their choices are evidently relying on it very much indeed despite the neutrality they officially profess.

I am not asking the fans to support Katherine if they are still in doubt. All I am speaking of is being at least neutral, refraining from working for the big anti-Jackson propaganda machine, giving Katherine an equal chance and letting the jurors decide on their own.

If Katherine Jackson loses Michael Jackson’s image will be tarnished and AEG will happily resume their usual practices with a double force. Now they will know that if they could do it to Michael Jackson they will be able to do it to everyone else.

If Katherine Jackson wins Michael’s image may be tarnished but the offenders who turned the last four months of his life into sheer misery will have to pay. They will be taught a lesson and will now think twice before making profits on other people’s tears, misery and humiliation. Winning from AEG will probably restrain even some tabloids which will be reluctant now to undergo the same procedure as AEG.

The outcome of this case depends on Michael’s fans too. Their influence on public opinion now has become so big that it is impossible not to notice it or disregard. And jurors are the same people like us who are also affected by public opinion whether they notice it or not.

Fans should decide for themselves whether corporations like AEG Live will go on with their inhuman policies towards artists and take advantage of people’s vulnerability like they did it with Jackson. Or whether the corporations should give up their bullying ways and develop an ethical approach to people Michael represented and whose future saddened him very much, when he was reflecting on the fate of other artists.

Michael said he did not want to end up like James Brown or Jackie Wilson:

“Not the way James Brown or Jackie Wilson did, where they just killed themselves. I wish James Brown could have slowed down and been more relaxed and enjoyed his hard work.”

Whether Michael Jackson will really become one of these people or will win over the corporation even in his death may depend on the choice the fans make. And this is why Michael’s fans are so closely monitored, guided and kept an eye on – it is their choice now which may determine the future.

It is you who decide.

http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/jackson-lawsuit-against-aeg-the-future-in-the-hands-of-michael-jacksons-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-43380

http://tl.gd/n_1rk1c22 ·

Prior to morning hearing Jackson attorneys addressed the court with complaints about AEG attorney “Leading” the witness(Julie Hollander) on Friday. Judge addressed and noted this. Jackson attorneys were on full alert to call objections if it happened again.

Julie Hollander

AEG Live Vice President of Event Operations Accounting

Defendants witness

By To MJ Respect is due

Redirect of Julie Hollander by defense attorney Stebbins-Bina

Good morning, did you have nice weekend.

Q. I’d like to pick up where we left of last, we were talking about by Mr. Woolley do you recall

A. yes

Q. You talked previously about Mr. Woolley’s role in payroll, for the This Is It tour. What was payroll services called?

A. Team services

Q. So Mr. Woolley was determining the amount that Dr. Murray would be paid

A. He would have been submitting the amount of compensation for Dr. Murray, pursuant to the amount negotiated

Q. Did he do the on his own accord… create compensation budgets and submit them to payroll

A. He submitted the payrolls simultaneously to me and Mr. Gongaware prior to payroll service. As Mr. Gongaware had to approve and make sure that the compensation was accurate to the agreed upon amount.

Q. Does everyone get their pay via payroll service or are there different ways

A.  There were different methods

Q. Some got pay at the end of the day on Friday, did you or anyone ever pay Dr. Murray

A. No

Q. Why not

A. Ermm….because the contract had not been fully executed

Q. And let’s take a look at the draft contract, you’ve seen this

A. Yes

Q. Is this the contract that you and Mr. Panish discussed?

A. Yes it looks same

Q. Whenever you’d receive the tour budget and compensation of all types, this was to let you know how to pay those that needed to be paid

A. Yes that’s part of the reasons why I reviewed the budget

Q. On this line who is providing services

A. This indicates that medical services were to be provided by Dr. Murray

Q. Who paid to?

A. GCA

Q. Do you understand who GCA

A. GCA is one of the parties that AEG Live went into contract with

Looks in recital B

Q. Do that say anything about, here under paragraph B, that Dr. Murray represents he is a cardiologist.

A. Yes he is a cardiologist, employed by GCA in Las Vegas

Q. Can you tell me if there is something you see in paragraph b5, about and an independent contractor being employed by AEG

A. Yes

Can you explain?

Objections

Q. Ah, if you have a furnishing company and that entity gets paid, does a percentage of that company go directly to the member of that company

A. Very little

Q. So an independent contractor has their own company and you pay them

A. Yes that would be paid to the company and that payment would be reported on a 1099 not on W2

Q. In Paragraph 3 of the contract, what does it say about the frequency of payment and to whom

A. It says that the producer shall submit payment to GCA on the 15^th day of the month or within 5 days of the execution of the agreement

Q. So based on this provision, you pay before or only after the contract has been executed

A. Only after the execution of the contract

Ms. Stebbins: Let’s turn to last page of the contract. Ms. Hollander: Ok

Ms. Stebbins: This here at the bottom, Ms. Hollander we talked last week about contracts being negotiated and the paperwork being done after, do you remember

A. Yes

Q. Now there were people working without a contract that had been fully executed; like Travis Payne and Karen Faye

A. Yes

Q. Was there anyone else working without a contract that had not been fully executed yet because there was no signature, like for instance Mr. Jackson

A. No

Q. Did anyone give you instruction that Dr. Murray couldn’t be paid until after Mr. Jackson had signed the contract

Objection

Q. Did anyone instruct you on whether you should pay Dr. Murray or not

A. I was told not to make payment to Dr. Murray, unless the contract had be signed by all parties

Q. Did you understand why this provision was enforced?

A. Due to the personal nature of services being provided by Dr. Murray as I understood it

Q. Did you have these instructions for anyone else?

A. No

Q. Mr. Panish asked you about a financial forecast for This Is It that was sent to Mr. Anschutz

A. Yes

Q. Did you prepare any documents for Mr. Anschutz?

A. No

Q. So in this situation what did you do

A. I sent an email to Mr. Woolley requesting forecast information on behalf of my supervisor Mr. Webking

Q. When you got that information from Mr. Woolley, what did u do

A. I passed it back to Mr. Webking

Q. Did you send that information to Mr. Anschutz?

A. No

Q Did you review what Mr. Webking sent to Mr. Anschutz

A. No

Q. Did you have any idea what sent Mr. Webking sent to Mr. Anschutz

A. No I do not

Q. What is the purpose of a financial forecast and why is it read

A. A financial forecast consists of a budget for a particular project or scenarios. We make adjustments of our actual costs and nonfactual which are estimates accordingly….based on event changes like change of vendor, venues, renegotiated contracts etc.

Q. How often is this done in your business?

A. As part of our company policy, we do what we call re-forecasts on any, tours concerts promotions on a monthly basis

Q. And this is done for all tours

A. We do this for everything we do

Q. Did you have any communication with Mr. Anschutz about the forecast or reforecast?

A. No

Q. I want to ask you about the differences between forecast and what’s on the books versus what in the budget,

A. The budget I tool for the operational side to create my financial reports. The budget gets into what the company expects to spend out of what they are willing to spend. The books is the general ledger, this where the actual income disbarments and receipt for the project are logged. The forecast is culmination based on the budget and books, you track the trend to get an idea of future profits or loss

Ms. Stebbins” Your honor may I approach the witness. Judge: You may. Stebbins gives copy of exhibit 12760

Q. What is this document Ms. Hollander?

A. Erm, this is uh… the report that was sent to the… ermm… the estate of Mr. Jackson

Q. And erm does it relate to the This Is It tour

A. Yes, this is for the This Is It tour

Q. Did you send it?

Objection

Q. Was this document Ms. Hollander sent to the estate of Michael Jackson?

A. Yes, to my recollection this was sent to Mr. Jackson’s estate

Q. What was the purpose of sending this?

A. This kind of report was to provide the Mr. Jackson’s estate with and accounting of debts incurred and what had been paid in regards to This Is It and Mr. Jackson, up to the date of the report

Q. You mean production cost

A. Yes production costs would be included in the report

Ms. Stebbins shows the report to Ms. Hollander

Q. What’s the date of this report?

A. October 21^st 2009

Q. Is this date after Mr. Jackson had passed

A. Yes

Q. Ok let’s turn to the 2^nd page, do you see the top left of the page, where it says Michael Jackson Incurred Report

A. Yes

Q. Now, what is that?

A. This is the standard format for reporting costs incurred and that we had paid

Q. On the left column under production cost, are these some kind of number codes for items services and transactions

A. Yes

Q. Are they the type of coding that was use on Mr. Woolley’s budget?

A. Yes they are

Q. I’d like to go through the list just to be clear and these costs were accurately incurred

A. Yes

Ms. Stebbins: I want to show you an exhibit Mr. Panish showed you last week, can you see this. Ms. Hollander: Yes

Q. Do you recall being asked about the This Is It budget?

A. Yes

Q. As of July 2009

A. Yes

Q. So this is a budget, it’s not actual payment is it

A. No

Q. What are these numbers on this budget, listed as not paid?

A. Well it says budget versus paid today, because budgets anticipated are not necessarily to be paid

Q. On this budget, what is listed is what was planned to be paid, against what was actually paid

A. Yes

Ms. Stebbins wants to give a copy of a budget to Mr. Panish. Judge says go ahead. Mr. Panish states that he hasn’t seen the budget before. He’s never had this.

Q. So Ms. Hollander, do you see budget here, this is what you prepared for Mr. Jackson’s estate

A. Yes

Ms. Stebbins: I want to go through the portion that I’ve blown up for you, ermm… so can you can explain whether these two rehearsal line items, code numbers are the same

A. They are not

Q. So how much was the budget for this rehearsal item?

A. The budget $75,000

Q. And as of Oct ‘09 how much was spent

A. It was $89,000

Q. Next line item, rehearsal facilities, how much did Mr. Woolley budget for this

A. The budget for rehearsal facilities, initially… was $871,000

Q. And how much was actually spent on the rehearsal facilities

A. That would be $1,553,558

Q. That’s a big difference wouldn’t you say

A. Yes

Q. Is this the kind of thing, that happens between budget created and what ends up on the books

A. Yes

Q. Numbers change…

A. Often they change

Ms. Stebbins: Let’s look at a couple more, this is code her you saw last week, code 430

Q. What is code 430 for

A. Medical management daily care

Q. What was code 430, medical management daily care, paid

A. Nothing

Q. Here… this is the total cost of production that Mr. Woolley budgeted. What does it say

A. $22,228,000 was the overall production budget

Q. What was actually spent on production?

A. $24,835,011

Q. Is it fair to say there is a significant difference between what Mr. Woolley projected and what was actually spent

A. Yes

Q. Is this common

A. It can be… yes

Q. What are some of the reasons this could happen… the fluctuating numbers

A.  Well you could have ermm…..for one… taken longer to put the report together, so more money would have been spent by the time the report was created. As for rehearsal costs, they had to rent say a sound stage for a longer period of time.

Q. So changes are necessary

A. Yes this business changes all the time, nothing’s in stone

Q. Sometime what’s not planned needs to be paid off for the project to continue?

A. Yes, absolutely

Q. Let’s look at one more compilation. What does this show?

A. That’s a budget for public relations for $18,000

Q. And how much was actually spent

A. Nothing we didn’t spend anything on public relations

Q. So no payment was made

A. Correct

Brian Panish Re-Cross

Q. Do you know what that $18,000 was allotted for….can you answer for certain?

*waits for answer*

Q. Can please answer my question Ms. Hollander, do you or don’t you know

A. No

Q. So you can’t tell if the $18,000 included in the budget was for public relations or not

A. No

Q. Let’s go to the next one, firstly the rehearsal budget and Dr. Murray’s compensation wouldn’t be accurate because everything stopped when Mr. Jackson died is that correct

A. No it wouldn’t be correct

Q. Do you know how many rehearsal didn’t take place because Mr. Jackson Died?

A. No

Q. Do you know how much Dr. Murray was to make

A. I can’t recall

Q. So are you able to determine whether or not if all rehearsals took place, that they would cost $175,000

A. No, I am not able to determine that

Q. Let’s go to the next one; Dr. Murray and double rehearsals are listed

A. Yes, that’s correct

Q. They didn’t get to do all rehearsals, did they?

A. I can’t tell which rehearsals were done

Q. And every budget before Mr. Jackson dies had $300,000 plus to be paid to Dr. Murray

A. Yes that’s right

Q. After Mr. Jackson dies, the same amount was still budgeted for Dr. Murray

A.  Yes it was

Q. On this budget it shows what for and who was paid, you didn’t pay Dr. Murray, so he’s not there

A. Sorry I don’t understand what you mean

Q. What was actually paid is listed on this document and you dint pay Dr. Murray

A. No, Dr. Murray was not paid

Q. And that is why payment to Dr. Murray

A. Yes, that’s correct

Q. Now on every budget you get, this is to list expected costs

A. Yes

Q. Now I want to talk with you about Mr. Jackson’s contract, do you remember, well to best of your knowledge?

A. Yes

Q. Had you ever seen the contract between Mr. Jackson and AEG before Mr. Jackson died

A. Yes

Q. So you know about the advance to Mr. Jackson of 7.5 million, correct

A. I don’t recall

Q. Would you like to see the contact to refresh your recollection?

A. That would help

Q. All the other questions since your time here, you could answer without seeing the contract

A.  Yes that because those are financial terms, which are familiar to me

Q. Since you are familiar with the finances, what paragraph of Mr. Jackson’s contract correlates to the advance?

A. I don’t know the paragraph number

Q. Ok going through is it on the first page

A. No

Q. Is it the 2^nd page….one moment, I will make it bigger for you to see

*court waits*

A. No I don’t see it on the 2^nd page

Q. Maybe I should help you let’s go to paragraph number 8.2 production advance, this is what you was asked bout on Friday

A. Yes

Q. Do you see the advance of $7.5 million?

A. Yes

Q. Do you know if Mr. Jackson’s approval or signature was necessary to receive the $7.5 million?

*Court waits………………. No answer*

*Waiting some more …………………………………………….. Mr. Panish: I can ask you again

Q. Do you know if Mr. Jackson had to approve advances above $7.5 million?

A. It says the producer will need to approve

Q. An the 24 million spent was just for production expenses is that correct

A. Yes

Q. Before Mr. Jackson died, did AEG ever advance monies to him for home expenses

A. I don’t know

Q. So you don’t know

A. No I don’t know

Q. You kept talking about what you say was the draft agreement for Dr. Murray

A. Yes

Q. By the way, did u speak to your lawyer again before today’s testimony?

A. No

Q. What’s the effective start date on the contract drafted for Dr. Murray?

A. May 1^st 2009

Q. Is there anywhere in the Murray document that says draft agreement

A. I can’t say

Q. So have you ever seen a document entitled final agreement written by AEG Live’s lawyers?

A. I have never seen this

Q. Have you seen this document referred to as the final agreement?

A. No

Q. So you don’t know if this is a finale agreement

A. No

You have seen many contracts in relations to This Is It, haven’t you?

A. Yes

Q. How many draft agreements did you see

A. I can’t put a number on it, I saw some

Q. Did you see any agreements with drafts on them

A. No, I’m not experienced in what the term draft is used to describe a contract

Q. My term of use is different obviously, what do you mean when you say draft contract, it that all the signatures on are not present

A. I guess my definition would be nearer to the contract not being signed as up until it is, it can be changed

Q. Is it your experience, people work with draft agreements?

A. Yes that’s that been my experience, hence the agreement being a draft, until fully executed with the necessary signatures

Q. Did you see any draft agreements

A. I didn’t see any

Q. So the agreements have been originals

A. If they were signed, they would be

Q. But according to Dr. Murray’s contract, was working as of May 1^st 2009

A. I can only speak as to what this piece of paper says

Q. And the term of the contract was to be from May 1st 2009 until the end of This Is It. So let’s go up to paragraph 2, to the terms of agreement and you know what a term is

A. Yes I certainly do

Q. So Dr. Murray’s term was from May 1^st 2009 until the end of This Is It; unless the tour was canceled or the agreement was terminated

A. Yes that is correct

Q. Do you know if Mr. Jackson received a copy of Dr. Murray’s contract?

A.  I have no idea

Q. Didn’t you tell us the amount of compensation to paid to Dr. Murray for his services, was approved by Mr. Jackson

A.  I state what was in the budget for the doctor and on his contract

Q. So you are unaware of whether Mr. Jackson approved the amount of compensation for Dr. Murray

A. I was told that it was put in the budget at the artist’s request, that’s all I know

Q. So that means that Mr. Jackson did approve payment for Dr. Murray

Objection

Q. Do you know anything about tour doctors having been hired for tours by AEG

A. I’ve been involved at some level, on every tour they (AEG) produced since they stated. I’ve never been involved in a tour were AEG hired a doctor

Mr. Panish can I have the question and the answer reread

Clerk rereads the question and the answer back “I’ve never been involved in a tour were AEG hired a doctor”

Q. So you don’t know, the only thing you know is what you see here. And you never been involved in any such aspect as hiring contracting a doctor for a tour

A. Yes that’s correct it’s never happened before

Q. So when you testified about Dr. Murray and his contract for this tour, you had never dealt with any like it before

AEG Objection overruled

A. It’s my experience, it’s not typical for tour producers to hire a doctor

Q. And you never seen this before in your entire history with AEG

A. Yes that’s correct

Q. And GCA is Dr. Murray’s company is that right, is that what you remember

A. Yes

Q. So is Dr. Murray the only person at this company

A. don’t know

Q. So you don’t what exactly this company GCA is

A. No

Q. Is the Dr. Murray GCA’s sole proprietor

A. I don’t now

Q. So you don’t know whether there is a 1,000 or one employee at GCA

A. No

Q. And the contract that AEG has is with GCA for Dr. Murray

A. That’s what it shows here

Q. And you don’t have any clue as to why Mr. Woolley classified Dr. Murray’s fees as production or pre-production

A. No I do not know

Q. No one told you it was because it could be covered under the insurance policy AEG were trying to get

A. It never came up

Q. Do you know what a written policy is?

A. Yes

Q. Do you know what an underwritten policy?

A. Yes

Q. There is no policy at AEG that prohibits people from being paid

A. Correct

Q. You knew there were people working on This Is It tour, without a fully written executed contract

A. Yes

Stebbins-Bina Redirect

Q. Is there a policy at AEG Live about people being paid with a written contract?

A. Yes

Q. Mr. Panish asked you was there a time in the beginning, when Dr. Murray was not a apart of the tour budget

A. Yes, the correct he was added later

Q. How many tours have you been involved with since working with AEG

A. Probably 20 by 2009, many more since than

Q. How many have you done where AEG Live was the promoter only?

A.  Now about upwards of 100

Q. Erm…what about as producer

A. We produced few tours since 2009, not too many

Q. Is it fair to say you have been more a promoter, rather than the producer?

A. By far

Q. When you talk about building stages or artist security, would you provide as promoter

A. Typically promoters would have very small crew, like accountants, production mangers, production assistants any others are type of staff hired locally. If you go to the Staples Center, staff comes with that venue. Much smaller the responsibility is yours

Q. And finally, real quick, were you involved at all with communicating any budget with Mr. Jackson

A. No

Q. After Mr. Jackson passed, you sent a report to his estate, did they do audit

A. Yes they did

Q. To your understanding did Mr. Jackson’s estate approve the production costs?

A. The cost were supposed to be paid as they were incurred pursuant to the contract

Q. So you don’t know whether the artist was supposed to approve the cost as they were being incurred not and not after they due

A. I don’t know, if you want to show me, I can look

Q. In all others (contract) they are supposed to be approved as they are being incurred

A. Yes

Q. All these concerts done by AEG, you didn’t work on all these concerts did you?

A. My staff are responsible for all financial recording yes

Q. You told me you worked on 20 tours up until 2009

A. Yes through 2009

Q. How many tours since 2009

A. Probably another… could be as many as 70

Q. Could it be hundred, where did that number come from?

A. Could be

Q. Actually you said in your deposition you worked on 20

A. That was in 09

Q. So since then are you saying, the amount of tours you worked on tripled

A. Refresh my memory

Q. Did you have the documents from your deposition?

A. No I remember

Judge: it’s ok for attorneys to interview their clients prior to trial, that’s ok. But what’s not ok is for attorneys to give answers

Q. You had said Ms. Hollander its 20, now its hundreds

A. That’s over my entire career with AEG

Q. You said you refreshed your recollection

A. Yes

Q. You didn’t speak to or look over anything with your lawyer

A. No, I dint speak to my attorney, I have a job,

Q. So you refreshed your recollection without looking at anything

A. maybe I misunderstood your question

Q. Why did you say you refreshed your recollection?

A. For personal reasons

Q. But when you refreshed your recollection you had to look at something did you look at something

A. Yes

Q. When did you look at something to refresh you recollection

A. When I was in office Friday

Q. What did you look at?

A.  Some of the projects we had done

Q. So you looked at documents of all the tours you had done

A. I refreshed my recollection, so that I can answer the questions accurately

Q. How many pages did you looked at

A. 2 pages

Q. Can u present those?

A. Yes

Q. Now, did you have an understanding or did you come to learn that someone at AEG had a signed agreement with Dr. Murray and that he expected to get paid

A. I’m not sure what you’re asking

Q. Counsel asked you whether people worked for free on This Is It. And you said eventually they expected to get paid. So Dr. Murray would have expected to get paid. Following those lines

A. Yes

Q. Is Dr. Murray listed anywhere as part of the artist advance

A. No

Q. So when you act as producer, you get more money than a promoter

A. Yes

Q. There is fees paid to producer and to the promoters

A. Typically it depends on the deal structure

Q. This deal you talk about, promoter is just one fee

A. Yes

Q. When AEG is the promoter there is a fee

A. Yes there is a percentage that they are paid for promotions

Q. Then there is another fee they receive being producer

A. Sometime

Q. So sometimes there is no fee, is that your testimony

A. No

Q. This time there was, for This Is It there were producer fees

A. Yes

Stebbins-Bina Redirect

Q. Who may tours were you involved I prior to 2009

A. My guess or estimate, would be 20 tours

Q. How many to date

A. Around 100, in some capacity

Q. For the This Is It tour, where you involved in the producing process

A. No

Q. Did you know whether AEG approved production costs for This Is It?

A. I have no knowledge of that

Excused subject to being recalled.

Judge says you have a number right, court laughs

Jackson attorney Brian Panish has decided not to call Propofol expert Dr. David Brown to testify as next witness, as Panish decided that Dr. Brown’s testimony would not add additional information for the jury.

As there was no witness to testify this morning , Panish subsequently plays the video deposition testimony of AEG defense expert witness, Marty Hom.

Hom was questioned by Plaintiff’s attorney Kevin Boyle on March 25, 2013 for the taped deposition.

Marty Hom

(AEG-retained expert witness / Tour Promoter)

Defendant’s Witness.  Plaintiff’s Adverse Witness.

Mr. Hom states he’s been in the music industry for some 25 years.  He said his duties are different from one tour to the next, based on the artist. He needs to adapt a change quickly because all artists are different in what they need.

Hom said the artist usually hires and pays him — issues him a check. He doesn’t know if Michael Jackson was paying Mr. Gongaware.

Mr. Hom states that AEGLive and Live Nation are the biggest companies in the business. He says he’s been friends with Randy Phillips for some 10 years.

Hom said he worked with Randy Phillips and AEGLive on the Bette Midler Tour in Las Vegas. And that Philips used to manage Lionel Richie — one of Hom’s former clients.

Hom says the music business is very small.  As a tour manager, he has worked with Janet Jackson, Alicia Keys, Bette Midler and the Eagles among others. Hom said he had met Katherine Jackson a few times, as well.

Hom said: This business is a very small business. I probably know most everyone in this business.

Hom said he has known Paul Gongaware for many years — they have crossed paths all the time. He considers Gongaware a friend. He said he has never worked with Gongaware. He knows both AEG executives Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips and considers them friends.

In the video deposition, Jackson attorney Kevin Boyle asked Hom, given his friendship with the defendants in this case, Phillips and Gongaware, how he could convince the jury that his testimony was unbiased and objective.

Hom said he and Phillips weren’t close — they didn’t socialize.

This is Hom’s first case serving as an expert witness.  Hom said he received a call from the defendant’s attorney, asking him if he would be interested in being an expert witness in this trial. After thinking about it, Hom agreed.

Hom said he didn’t know what an expert witness is paid. He was told they make between $400 and $500 an hour. AEG agreed to pay Hom $500 an hour.

Hom said: They wanted me to just testify in basic terms about what I do. I believe they were looking for someone with knowledge of the tour industry.

Hom testified that he has seen artists on tour travel with physical therapists, massage therapists, chefs — but he had never worked on a tour where the artist brought a doctor along on the tour.

Boyle: Have you ever hired a doctor to go on tour?

Hom: No.

Hom said he had hired doctors locally — on location — if and when an artist was sick or if a crew member was sick. He said the tour paid for the doctor.

Hom: The doctor should look out for best interest of the artist. I would never put an artist on stage if it wasn’t in their best interest.

Boyle: Do you know Kenny Ortega?

Hom: Yes.

Boyle: Would Mr. Ortega falsely sound an alarm about an artist health?

Hom: No.

Hom said he never inserted himself between a doctor and a patient. He said he didn’t believe it was appropriate for concert/tour promoters to do it. He said that He said he never asks doctors about treatment or prognosis of sick or injured artists.

He said it is legitimate to question how long an artist is going to be sick — and similar questions.

Hom: Is it appropriate? I don’t know, but it’s a question I have to ask for the best interest of the show. I think it’s a legitimate question.

Hom said he didn’t see a problem asking doctor questions.

Hom: It’s up to the doctor to set the limits.

Hom said he would ask the doctor questions to determine the of condition the artist and their ability to do the tour. Hom said he needs to know if the artist can perform.  If not, for how long they need to be on leave.

During Hom’s deposition an AEG attorney asked him about tours in which he knew doctors accompanied bands. He said he knew the Rolling Stones had doctor on previous tour. And he also knew Blink-182 had doctor on tour. However, he did not know what their agreements were.

Hom testified he’d worked with AEG on a couple occasions, including Alicia Keys tour. He was contacted earlier this year by two AEG executives — one being Timm Wooley — and asked about working as manager on the Rolling Stones tour.

Hom responded that he was pretty busy but since it was the Rolling Stones, he would like to be considered by AEG for the position.

Hom said AEG ended up hiring someone else as tour manager for the Rolling Stones shows.

In his video deposition, Hom testified that Conrad Murray’s initial request of a $5 Million salary: Raised a red flag because it was an enormous sum of money. It’s outrageous.

Hom’s conclusion which he submitted to AEG stated that he found no red flags that should have signaled to AEG that something was wrong with Murray.

Hom said in his 25+ years in the business, he has never seen a contract agreement between a tour promoter/producer and a doctor.

Hom said he unaware of a promoter/producer ever paying an artist’s personal manager.

Boyle: Would you ever hire a doctor to give an opiate-dependent artist Demerol?

Hom: No

Boyle: Would you hire a doctor to be feeding the chemical dependency of the artist?

Hom: I would not.

Hom said he had no opinion whether AEG defendants Phillips and Gongaware hired Dr. Murray. Hom says he never talked with Phillips, Gongaware or Woolley about Michael Jackson.

Boyle asked Hom if he wanted to work with AEG Live in the future. They are the two biggest concert promoters and he wants to keep working with them both. Hom said yes — he would like to work with them in the future, but not for them because promoters don’t have any say as to hiring him. He said he works for the artist — he is hired and paid by the artist. Promoters have no say in his contract agreement.

Hom said he had not seen much of any depositions or exhibits from the case. Also, he acknowledged AEG was considering him for the job as tour manager on the Rolling Stones tour while also asking him to testify for them.

(End of Marty Hom’s video deposition)

Panish tells Judge Palalzuelos he intended to call AEG’s Shawn Trell as the next witness. However, AEG stated that Trell he was not available to testify.

Therefore, Judge Palalzuelos recessed for a 4-hour lunch break.

(Afternoon session)

Julie Hollander

(AEG Accounting Executive Controller)

Defendant’s Witness.  Plaintiff’s Adverse Witness.

Continued direct examination by Brian Panish.

Panish asks Hollander if it’s true she had lunch with AEG attorneys today.  She says she did.

Panish asks her  about This Is It tour budgets — from both before and after Michael’s death.

He shows Hollander a document from April 30, 2009. It lists ‘management medical’ for $300,000.

Hollander said her job was to facilitate payments and sometimes approve payments.

Panish: Do people worked for AEG without fully executed contracts.

Hollander: Yes, they may start work in general terms.

She stated that it was standard AEG policy that no payments be issued without fully executed a contract — and that the contract could get executed at a later date.

Panish said people did the work before Mr. Jackson died, but got paid after he died.

Hollander: I don’t recall specifics.

Hollander said there were people who had contracts renegotiated after Michael Jackson’s death. She said AEG renegotiated contracts after Michael died so as to ‘mitigate the burden on the Michael Jackson Estate‘.

Hollander: People commence work before their contract is executed, yes.

Previous evidence exhibited of a chain of emails show some people were complaining that they weren’t being paid after Michael’s death. But Hollander added that many were paid.

Panish shows email from July 10, 2009 asking Hollander to sign a tour contract so vendors could get paid. Hollander signed it after Michael Jackson’s death.

Panish shows email from August 4, 2009 showing another vendor who renegotiated contract after Michael Jackson’s death and got paid for services rendered prior to Michael Jackson’s death.

Panish shows email from June 30, 2009 from Randy Phillips to Holland: This is from Karen Faye who did MJ’s hair and make up. She bought three wigs for use in the tour and one of them is going to be used for his final rest.

Karen Faye charged AEG for the wigs she purchased for Michael. After he died, AEG stopped a payment. Faye was upset and in email correspondence. Hollander forwarded it to Phillips. Cost for the wigs was $11,500 — Hollander said that it was a nominal amount, so there was no need for a contract and it was paid.

Hollander said Gongaware would occasionally require that she expedite payments. Hollander: He’s an impatient person. Vendors are important to him.

Hollander said she knew who Tohme Tohme was — and that she knew he had been let go at some point from duties as Mr. Jackson’s manager. Hollander testified she knew Tohme was terminated before Mr. Jackson died — and had no legal signing authority for Mr. Jackson.

Panish said $36 Million was spent on This Is It. He asked if Hollander she knew AEG had filed a claim against Lloyd’s of London to collect insurance.

Hollander said she knew it through the media — but that she didn’t specifically recall giving any information for the claim.

Panish shows an AEG Pre-Tour Cost Projection document dated May 20, 2009. It states AEG was to pay Conrad Murray $300,000.  Panish: This was pursuant to the contract. The document shows that AEG budgeted to pay Murray for his work with Michael Jackson as ‘preproduction cost.’ Murray was not paid.

Panish shows a Timm Woolley prepared budget approved by Paul Gongaware which cited ‘Management Medical’ amounts to be paid to Murray listed ‘Per Contract‘.

Hollander received email on June 18, 2009 from Brigitte Segal, who worked on the tour. She was requesting estimated cost for living arrangements in London. Woolley wrote Segal on June 18, 2009: I’ve prepared what I think is an equitable division if expenses between MJ and The Tour.

(listing as follows):

AEG pays for entertainment arcade and bowling alley as a precondition in terms of what Michael requested at the Carolwood house as and part of the agreement.

AEG pays for 3 of the houses — for Bush, Faye and Murray (wardrobe dresser, makeup/hair and personal physician).  Panish also exhibited several additional emails showing that other vendors were paid — including Karen Faye.

Michael Jackson pays for additional furniture, staff, security, nanny, food.

Gongaware responded on June 19, 2009: I agree with Timm’s allocation and the charges. Approved.

Hollander said it was pursuant to the terms of the contract that AEG must pay those costs relating to This Is It tour — as an advance payment.

Panish exhibits a pre-production budget in relation to what AEG paid. As of July 1, 2009, Dr. Murray still appears budgeted for $300,000.

Hollander said she had not seen a contract with Dr. Murray signed by AEG.

Panish: If the $300,000 was supposed to be advance for Mr. Jackson to be repaid, it would be listed under category ‘Artist’s Advances’.

Hollander: Yes.

Panish: Dr. Murray was supposed to be paid $150,000 per month, correct?

Hollander: Yes, according to the un-executed contract.

Panish played Hollander’s deposition testimony of her talking about 20 tours she has handled finances for.

Panish: Was the This Is It Tour the first time you have seen where AEGLive hired a physician for the tour?

Hollander: Yes.

She also acknowledged it was the first time she saw AEGLive pay for an artist’s personal physician.

Recross examination by Jessica Stebbins

Stebbins asks Hollander what is an advance. Hollander said it was like a cash advance and — depending on the contract — it would be paid back by the artist.

Hollander testified that Michael Jackson was responsible for 100% of the production costs if the tour did not go forward.

And if the tour went forward, Michael Jackson was responsible for paying 95% of the costs — AEG would pay 5%.

Hollander said if something is listed on the budget, it means it was planned to be paid — but things often change.

For This Is It, Hollander said she had contracts with choreographers, lighting, staging, sound equipment, etc.

Hollander told Stebbins she was nervous answering questions because it was her first time testifying.

She testified that the only contract that required Michael Jackson sign it was the one drafted for Conrad Murray.

Hollander: My understanding was that Mr. Jackson had asked to include Dr. Murray in the tour personnel. Dr. Murray was requested by the artist — that was my understanding. I was instructed that no payments were to be made until Michael Jackson signed the contract due to the personal nature of the services.

Hollander said she was instructed not to pay Murray until Jackson signed his contract.

Hollander: Tour manager maintains the budget, negotiates some vendor’s contracts — may be involved in mitigating tax exposure. My role in the tour was to make sure the items created were in line with the budget made.

Hollander said she never saw a version of Dr. Murray’s contract signed by AEG or Mr. Jackson. AEG never paid Dr. Murray.

Hollander: A budget is just a tool. Sometimes an executed contract differs from the budget. In that case, the contract’s terms dictate the payments.

Court adjourned until Monday.

We here at TeamMichaelJackson.Com have decided to address this Wade Robson situation one time only. We weren’t going to, as we know the truth, understand the timing of this story and have more pressing matters to attend to; which is the Jackson vs. AEG trial. Putting a name and a face to the real power players, involved in Michael’s murder, takes precedence… please please please understand that. Wade Robson showing up during the first few weeks of this most important trial, is because AEG’s responsibility for the death of Michael has been exposed early on. Even those that didn’t believe, believe now… whether they admit it or not.


No longer can you just chalk this up to “conspiracy”. The public is beginning to understand and wake up more and more, about the evil that men do. There is concrete evidence revealing what Michael went through at the hands of this company and what his days were like in the end. The truth about Michael’s death and justice for his Mom Children and Family must be a priority.

We all knew right away what Robson’s agenda was and why he chose this time and this hour to all of the sudden have falsified memories from his youth. None of us took the bait….Since we know that Wade Robson needs media attention to spread his lies, to try and bully the estate into paying him, to try and hurt Mrs. Jackson and the rest of the Family while they courageously fight the powers that be. We must act like we know and put a stop to this. These accusation broke Michael and they severely hurt his Mom. 2005 was a hard long battle for the Jackson family and those wounds have not totally healed as they have to keep hearing about and being reminded of that horrific ordeal.


Michael was acquitted on these false charges of child abuse and yet they are still an issue. The media acts as if he was never acquitted, as if the FBI never found any wrong doing, as if evidence in the case wasn’t falsified, as if Tom Sneddon didn’t have a vendetta…. as if the oldest trick in the book to take away society’s belief in a man with a strong voice an ability to rally nations… is to label him a child predator. This event was to put an asterisk on Michael’s legacy and has become a tool used by those that want to exploit and maim him, while making attempts to extort millions of dollars from his Mom & Children’s estate. The men in suits have what they want, they have made their billions, deals that can’t be broken are already in place, so will they really care to put a stop to this or will they abandon Michael like a ceased and depleted nation.

The jury in the Jackson vs. AEG case are not sequestered… yes they are instructed to not watch the news or read the paper or surf the web… human nature tells us though, that there’s a high likelihood that those rules are not being followed to the letter. This news can influence the jury, child molestation is probably the most heinous crime of our society and those that are viewed as molesters are seen as less than nothing. If public opinion is swayed to believe this about Michael again, these feelings will seep into the courtroom and into the minds of the jury. Do you really think that they will feel sympathy for an accused child molester for the third time, will they hold AEG responsible for his death or be glad that he is dead, will they care how he was treated as a slave and endured racist remarks, while strange men stood in his dressing room to make sure that he performed and then followed him home.


How frightened must he have been? *sighs* Will they care that everyone on the production of This Is It was told to ignore Michael, not to assist or offer him help. Will they care that a doctor who is not even a certified cardiologist, poisoned Michael with a chemical cocktail that stopped his heart so fast that he was found dead with his eyes still open. Will they care that, he was cold and freezing… in distress…it was blatantly obvious even to the most neglectful of eyes that he was near death and those that dare to scream and yell cry and beg for him to get help was flat out ignored.


There’s a chance that they won’t care, if this gets big enough, if we allow this to spin out of control. They won’t care to hold AEG responsible, they won’t care that children are without their father unnecessarily, they won’t care about this precious loss of life….they just won’t care. And guess what? If that happens, AEG will get away with murder, they will get away with killing Michael all over again. This is an execution of a man that is already no longer with us. Michael doesn’t deserve this!

So what can we do about this? There is a lot we can do, one…we can lay our personal nonsense to the side. We can really come together on this. All camps teams, cliques and independents…believers and nonbelievers, estate supporters and non-estate supports alike… Because we all know and can have solid bond with one another on the fact that THIS DID NOT HAPPEN TO WADE ROBSON AT THE HANDS OF MICHAEL JACKSON. This is something that holds us all together, this knowledge that Robson is a liar and an opportunist. The networks wouldn’t push for the airing of this trial, the trial where the world would finally become awakened to how dirty big business is, how men in suits callously kill for money and how Michael didn’t deserve to die and would not be dead today if it weren’t for his enslavement by AEG.


The world needs to know how the minds of those in control really think, it was important to Michael and he tried to warn and teach us. The networks did not push for this as they want the secret to remain a secret. They will give you their little tweets, a second or so of sound bites here and there, but not the type of coverage this trial is due. Information is power and they want us powerless. Yet Wade Robson gets full airplay on all the major networks and powerful talk show hosts and pundits around our nation have given him the green light to attack a man that is dead. It wasn’t enough that media created psychological damage by displaying Michael’s nude body in a morgue on a slab, now they allow this accusation…. the accusation that destroyed him to resurface and during a time when his family and supporters are seeking justice for him.


We must let them know that Michael Jackson did matter, that his life did mean something. He was not some caricature that they can make fun of or use as punch line in a crude joke. Michael was not someone that was to be used to make them money, robbed of his wealth and then discarded like waste. This MJFam is the sad reality as to how our Love has been treated and is continuously being treated in death.

So look…every station that gives Robson a platform, we mustn’t give them ratings, by watching. We wanted justice televised not injustice. Let’s write email tweet and fax all networks that have decided to air his lies and educate them on justice for Michael. Let them know how many supporters they will lose if they continue their support of Robson. Think about why justice was not aired, yet hatred is….If you have links to his interviews, if you’ve tweeted about him and his scheduled appearances don’t give him free advertising delete them, take away his power. We are social media and we have voices, let’s do a media blackout on Wade Robson.

Think about Michael’s babies and how they must feel…they are old enough now, to understand what is being said and done to their father. There are sick people that have used this to tease and harass them, let’s not be a part of that pain, by posting anything about him.

We here at Team Michael Jackson, will stand by and support whomever initiates a plan and/or campaign to stop this vicious attack on Michael. We will support you and we will have our followers support you as well. This is something that we must do for Michael as he’s said, his fans/supporters, will fight for him and are the greatest activists in the world. Let’s be true to that, we owe it to him.

Julie Hollander

AEG Live Vice President of Event Operations Accounting

Defendants witness

By ToMJRespectIsDue

Direct examination from Brian Panish

Q. When were you promoted to vice president?

A. Don’t recall

Q. Was it within 5 years?

A. Yes

Q. And the individual who hired you was Mr. Tim Woolley

A. Yes

Q. He was the CFO of AEG Live

A. Yes, the chief financial officer is responsible for all financial matters of the company and reporting financial activity?

Q. They are management of the company

A. Yes

Q. And the CFO report to the CEO

A.  Yes

Q. That’s the chief executive officer that is what the CEO stands for, correct

A. Yes

Q. And AEG Live has a CEO

A. Yes,

Q. That’s Randy Phillips

A. Yes

Q. Who else was working for AEG when you were hired?

A. Mr. Paul Gongaware. Mr. Paul Coatland?

Q. Do they still work for AEG

A. Yes,  at that time Mr.Paul Gongaware was the company CEO of the Concert West division

Q. So prior to becoming AEG, he was the company CEO when you joined the company

A. Yes. Paul Gongaware, Meglen Had always worked in the capacity of CEO of Concert West Division, Mr. Randy Phillips joined later

Q. Mr. Woolley was your soul supervisor is that correct

A. Yes, Mr. Woolley would oversee accounts and other matters such as profit designation

Q. When you were hired, you were an accountant

A. Yes

Q. Your duties Included, creating financial budgets for the company, keeping abreast of balance sheets and transactions, financial documentations of all types, the money of the company was your responsibility

A. Yes

Q. When you prepared your reports, Mr. Woolley would check them for accuracy and have the final say

A. Yes, that is correct he is my boss

Q. Was it under Mr. Woolley that you were trained and he made sure that you did your job properly?

A. Yes, Mr. Woolley has many years long experience in the financial industry

Q. Was Mr. Woolley the tour accountant for This Is It

A. I don’t know if he was the tour accountant but he created and was in charge of the budget for This Is It

Q. In what capacity did Mr. Woolley work for This Is It in 2009

A. I would say he was in my opinion; he had a broader role then what a tour accountant would be considered to have

Q. Would you say that Mr. Woolley was management?

A. I would say that he was responsible for developing the overall budget. I can’t give you his specific job description as I didn’t hire him

Q. Did you report to Mr. Woolley?

A. No I didn’t report to him

Q. When did you stop reporting to Mr. Woolley?

A. That would be in 2002

Q. That was the last time you worked on a project with Mr Woolley

A. Correct

Q Is he working now on a project

A. I’m not clear

Q. What was he working on when he was helping on a project that got nowhere on a Harry Potter Brand

A. I’m not certain

Q. Is AEG now involved in promotions with Rolling Stones?

A. Yes

Q. Was Mr. Woolley involved in Rolling Stones

A. I had no involvement in that

Q. So you don’t know

A. No, I don’t know

Q. When Mr. Woolley became involved in This Is It he was living in Florida

A. Yes

Q. Who is the CFO now

A. Rich Webpain?

Q. And Randy Phillips is still the CEO, correct

A. Yes

Q. Your background…you’ve gone to college

A. Yes

Q. Did you get your degree in accounting?

A. No I did not

Q. Do you have a CPA LICENSE?

A. No, I have worked in accounting; I’ve been the assistant controller to the vice president since 1984

Q. So the answer to my question would be yes

A. Yes. Generally I use the “GAP” system General Accounting Procedures, accounting principles, standards and procedures to compile financial statements

Q. So it’s generally accepted in the accounting industry

A. Yes

Q. Before coming to AEG who did you work for Avalon Attractions

A. Yes

Q. Before coming to AEG you worked with Avalon Attraction

A. Yes

Q. When you were working for Avalon you were the staff accountant

A. Yes, I also worked part time as controller

Q. How many years were you employed there

A. I was there 15 yrs

Q. You stated that you began in 1984

A. Yes,

Q. And then you left Avalon

A. Yes, I left by choice by in 1999

Q. Where did you work from 1999 until you began your work for AEG

A. I held the controller position at TVA Entertainment, I also continued handling accounting in phoenix for a venue theater

Q. Your work during your career also included merchandising,

A. Yes that’s right, my first job in 1984 for the Jacksons Victory Tour

A. So that’s shirt and merchandise with logos on it, that sort of thing, is that correct

A. Yes

Q. Various forms of merchandise

A. Yes

Q. These things would be sold by the concert promoter

A. Yes

Q. Does a controller report directly to the chief financial officer?

A. I do

Q. Typically….

A. Yes unless they are in their own position such a Vice President

Panish Let me say something to you, can i finish speaking then you speak

Q. Would you like water

A. No I’m fine

Q. We were talking about being controller, you said you were the controller for AEG for 12 yrs. As comptroller you’re responsible for all accounting transactions at AEG Live

A. Yes, and for AEG Live events we have a corporate controller

Q. Are you responsible for financial reporting?

A. Yes

Q. Did you give a deposition before this trial?

A. Yes

Q. Did you meet with AEG’s lawyers for those depositions?

A. Yes

Q. Who did you meet with?

A. I met with Ms. Jessica Stebbins Bina and Mr. Wang attorneys for O’Melveny and Myers

Q. How may time did you meet with the attorneys

A. Since or Now, , ermmm probably six meetings

Q. How many since your deposition was taken on November 8^th 2012?

A. Once briefly and twice recently

Q. When were the recent meetings?

A. Yesterday and today

Q. How many hours

A. Let’s see, about four hours yesterday then an hour and half today

Q. Five and half hours in the last two days

A. Yes

Q. Now did you review any documents in order to prepare for today’s testimony?

A.  Yes

Q. Did this refresh your recollection?

A. Yes

Q. What did you review?

A. I reviewed some budget reports and a few emails and that’s mainly it.

Q. Mainly it?

A. Well I…there were budgets and emailed reports to management and ermm contracts with Mr. Jackson

Q. What emails did you review to refresh your recollection?

A. There were quite a few, from Mr. Woolley too that I may have been included on and emails about settling payment with vendors

Q. Are they (emails and documents) here today?

A. There are now in my counsel’s possession

Q. This is all to help you

A. Yes when going over a lot of information in short time they have been helpful, its difficult to recant so much from a long time ago

Q. How may emails have you reviewed that helped you refresh your recollection to testify here

A. I don’t know… dozens

Q. So dozens can be 24 emails

A. There were quite a few, exchanges and some schedules, I can’t say for sure

Q. You say schedules.

A. No not schedules in my mind they are what I call a budget or financial report

Q. did you review your deposition

A. Yes

Q. Did you review your exhibits in the deposition?

A. When I did… I did, not recently no

Q. They were not all documents were they?

A.  Yes that correct, some documents may not have been in my deposition

Q. How may emails with Mr. Woolley did you review to refresh your recollection

A. I couldn’t tell you, I looked at a lot of things yesterday,

Mr. Panish: Only way to know is if we have them here today, can we produce to refresh her recollection

Judge Palazuelos: You want them now

Ms. Stebbins:  I don’t have issue

Panish: Who has those documents

Stebbing: Your honor I don’t think it fair to give them, as others may be in named in those that are not relevant to his witness testimony….

Panish: I would like to see

Judge: Continue

Q. How many different emails are there regarding Mr. Woolley?

A. I really can’t tell you how many there are, it’s not coming to mind

Q. You told me there were several dozens

A. hmm……………………

Q. Would you say there’s 24 to 40 different emails that you viewed to refresh your recollection to testify today

A. There were several exhibits quite a few were emails, 20 to 40 that’s hard for me to say

Q. You know what exhibits are being used in this case

A. I know there were documents I was shown, that were marked as exhibits that were in my deposition

Q. Were there additional exhibits that were not in your deposition?

A. Yes

Q. How many of those were they

A. I don’t know, you know… I didn’t sit there and count them

Q. What’s an estimate of how many documents you reviewed to refresh your recollection, that were not marked as an exhibit with your deposition

Ms. Stebbins:  Your honor, we will bring them all

Q. ma’am how many documents did you review, several dozen

A. My best estimate… there were many, probably in excess of 40

Q. In your deposition there were only 20, did you know that

A. I didn’t know, I don’t recall

Mr. Panish: Let me see if I can refresh your recollections so I will give you a copy of your deposition; ok with your exhibits

*Mr. Panish gives Ms. Hollander a huge binder of her deposition and exhibits*

Panish: How many exhibits are here *Shows here there were 20*

Q. How many more were shown to you

A. Approximately 20 more

Q. And that was to help you refresh your recollection, so that you can give your best testimony here today

A. Yes

Q. Some emails reviewed were from Mr. Woolley

A.  Yes

Q. Who were they addressed to

A. Some to me, some were addressed to Mr. Webking With me copied on them. Ermmm Some may have been addressed to Ms. Medina one of the accountants on This Is It. Possibly emails ermmm to Mr. Gongaware to my recollection

Q. Did you review emails to Dr. Murray from Mr. Woolley

A. No

Q. Let’s talk about your responsibilities, would say part of your responsible was creating and keeping track of financial reports

A. Sure In my capacity as controller, I have a multitude of units I am responsible for, on this particular tour I was responsible for overseeing the books and general ledger in our accounting relating to this project. I want to call them books,

Q. Is it to  report with accuracy

A. Yes

Let’s talk about AEG Live, they’re concert promoters, that’s their primary business. Are there other businesses within AEG Live

A. We have done other business from time to time, like museum exhibitions, That’s mainly one division from AEGLive

Q. Did you work in the exhibitions division?

A. I did many years ago

Q. Is someone else the controller for this division now?

A. It has been sold

Q. So the Only division left now is concert promotions

A. Yes

Q. You are the controller for concerts

A. Yes

Q. What is Concerts West?

A. It’s a brand name used by AEG

Q. What do you mean by that?

A.  Concerts West is what we would call a DBA, doing business as. In this situation this is a name that is attached to company. It’s your face to the public, its the company name you put out there, it has history in the music industry included in it.

Q. So Concerts West has a name in the industry that is used by AEG

A. Yes to my understanding

Q. When you joined AEG Live, do you know how long they were in business, under current ownership?

A. Mr. Anschutz started AEG concerts and it became AEG Live in 2000 or 2001

Q. The concert division of AEG, used to be called what

A. AEG Concerts LLC

Q. And that changed to AEG Live

A. Yes, November 2000, ahhh ermmm. November2000 it was still AEG Concerts

Q. AEG Live is a division of AEG

A. Yes

Q. And when did Concerts West come to AEG Live

A. It was part of the organizations brand name used when AEGLive started in 2000

Q. AEG Live was first called Anschutz Entertainment Group

A. AEG Concerts LLC

Q. AEG Concerts LLC changed in May of 2000 to AEG Live

A. I can’t be sure it changed in 2000, 2000 or 2001, I don’t know

Q. When you began there, what name was being used?

A. It was operating under Concerts West

Q. Was that Anschutz Entertainment Group

A. It was AEG Concerts LLC

Q. AEG Concerts LLC was doing business as Concerts West

A. Yes

Q. AEG Concerts LLC changed their name to AEG Live but still doing business as Concerts West

A. Yes

Q. It still the same but different name

A. Yes

Q. Does Concerts West have its own division

A. Yes

Q About how many people work for that company (Concerts West)

A. erm ahh, oh Maybe ten

Q. And the co CEOs are, John Meglen and Paul Gongaware

A. Yes

Q. And they report to Randy Phillips CEO/President of AEG Live

A. To my understanding, yes

Q. Was Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Meglen co CEOs before Mr. Phillips came

A. Yes

Q. When did Mr. Phillips come to company?

A. I don’t know

Q. More than 5 years

A. Absolutely

Q. Was it 10 years

A. I don’t know

Q. Was it shortly after you started with the company?

A. I can’t be sure

Q. Can you give an estimate?

A. If you want an estimate, probably in 2002

Q. Mr. Phillips definitely arrived after you were already employed with AEG

A. Yes that’s right

Q. You started in May of 2001

A. Yes

Q. So you’re there since May of 2001, maybe Mr. Phillips is arrives by 2004

A. Yes

Q. Sometime in that time frame, Mr. Phillips joined the company and you were already there

A. I’ve been there a loooooong time

Q. That would be precise

A. I’m pretty precise

Q. Now, the touring division is it a separate division of AEG Live

A. Can you define that

Q. AEG touring you work for them,

A. Yes they’re my responsibility

Q. How many divisions does AEG have in separate to touring?

A. We also have venues, many across the country, at least 20

Q. When you say venue is that concert stadiums

A. Yes but smaller, venues are not arena size

Q. What about the O2,

A. That is our parent company

Q. That has big capacity

A. Yes

Q. What about Home Depot is that part of AEG

A. Yes

Q. How big are some of these other venues

A. They seat 7000 or smaller

Q. So AEG owns arena that seat from 7000 to 1000

Objection: Over ruled

A. ermm we operate the venues, I cant give you an exact number, the cap tends to run from 7000 to 1000 that we just manage but now own.

Q. Are you the controller for the venue division as well?

A. Yes

Q. What else, what other divisions are you the controller for

A. We have regional offices that may produce one of our shows, we may rent out venues. I oversee the accounts for those regional offices as well

Q. Any other division

A. Yes we have a festival division

Q. Are you the controller for that division?

A. I’m involved, but not controller

Q. Does this division have a separate controller?

A. Yes

Q. Does that controller report to you

A. Yes

Q. Any other division that you haven’t mentioned

A. I’m thinking off my head… we have a small corporate concert division. For companies like Microsoft who want to have an employee summit, we would entertain that

Q. You do the day to day, you oversee the finances for all these divisions

A. Yes

Q. Anything else

A. No, not that comes to mind

Q. Ok now, it was the Concerts West division and AEG Live, which were slated to promote and produce This Is It

A. Yes

Q. Mr. Meglen and Mr. Gongaware are in charge of Concerts West

A. Yes

Q. Are they still in charge today?

A. Yes

Q. And you were to oversee accounting for this project… set the financial procedure

A. Yes

Q. Are these procedure in writing?

A. Yes we have them in writing

Q. And this financial procedure is supposed to be followed by the company

A. Yes

Q. So all financial transactions have consistency that becomes a part of a financial report

A. Yes

Q. Within the touring division, there has to be financial projection for each tour

A. Yes and I’m responsible for  making sure those books are maintained

Q. What do you mean by books?

A. Its electronic accounting system the basically, fundamentally it’s called a general ledger. We make payments, tally expenses, and reconcile receipts, track revenue etc… and it’s all recorded in a general ledger, aka books

Q. So these books you do, you have various codes assigned to these expenses

A. Yes

Q. Could you describe when and how a company sets that up

A. We have established a chart of accounting that can be based on the standard categories in any business; let’s say this accounting chart is used uniquely to your operation

Q. Do you give a number to each of your accounts?

A. Yes

Q. So let’s say you have vendor who delivers paper clips

A. Yes there would be a number and account code that identifies that vendor

Q. So for that vendor you can see how much you paid and bought for that particular vendor

A. That’s right

Q. So you have a general amount and what you expect or allot to deal with this vendor

A. Yes each vendor is assigned a budget

Q. In 2009, This Is It was one of those projects, you were responsible for that account

A. Yes

Q. I believe you estimated that you were involved in 20 types of concert shows since working at AEG

A. Yes that was my estimate, 20 tours not shows, there’s a big difference

Q. So Michael Jackson’s This Is It was that a tour

A. Yes that was classified as a tour

Q. Even though This Is It, was not on a route, would be at the O2 only, this was classified as a tour

A. Yes

Q. So Celine Dion in Vegas only is a what

A. That is classified as a residency

Q. What’s the difference between, This Is It only be at the O2 being called a tour and Celine Dion only being in Vegas being called a residency

A. I can’t really tell you why somebody decided to call it 2 different things

Q. And it was Mr Webking the CEO who informed you, you would be working on This Is It

A. Sorry he is CFO

Q, Who is the CEO of AEG

A. Currently the CEO of AEG is Dan Bekerman

Q Was he the Tim Leiweke CEO in 2009

A. Yes

Q.. Tim Leiweke  was let go from the company do you know why

A. He’s no longer with the company, I don’t know under which circumstances he was let go

Q. So the answer is you don’t know

A. Yes, I don’t know

Q. Have you ever met Mr Phillip Anschutz

A. Yes, I have met Mr Anschutz

Q. Would you agree that advances for This Is It required many financial documents that needed to be prepared?

A. Yes

Q. And they were accurately and truthfully prepared

A. Yes

Q. This would include a budget

A. Yes

Q. Reports on cash flow

A. Yes

Q. Contracts with vendors

A. Yes

Q. Contract with independent contractors

A. Yes

Q. Contracts with employees

A. I don’t get involved with any employee contracts, they would never cross my desk ever

Q. Did you prepare the budget for This Is It?

A. No not my responsibility

Q. Did Mr. Woolley prepare the budget for This Is It?

A. Yes the budget for This Is It was Mr. Woolley’s responsible

Q. Did you ask Mr. Woolley to prepare the budget?

A. No

Q. So you never sent an email to Mr. Woolley saying Mr. Anschutz wanted to see budget

A. Well I may have sent that email, but preparing the budget wasn’t my responsibility

Q. Were you involved with the budget for This Is It?

A. I was provided with the budget

Q. You made sure it was accurate didn’t you

A. I was not responsible for preparing it, I was responsible for what was spent

Q. First of all, a budget is what you anticipated would be spent on This It IS

A. Yes

Q. And you keep track of what has to be spent

A. Yes

Q. And for This Is It, you were responsible for that project, the financial aspect, what money had to be paid out

A. Yes

Q. Money due and anticipated to be owed and had to paid out, you took care of that

A. Yes

Q. So you get the budget, then you would check to make sure, whatever was reported to be spent, was spent

A. Yes

Q. And you would check what anticipated to be spent was

A. Well anticipated is broad, it would have been to assure contracts have been fully executed, I’m not verifying the anticipation of the execution

Q. Well your role was to focus on maintaining financial records, overseeing disbursements and reporting to the executive management of the This Is It tour

A. Yes, yes, yes

Q. And that payment Paul Gongaware would meet and organize with the executive team

A. Yes

Q. Now the executive management that you had primarily reported to was Mr. Gongaware

A. Well actually it was Mr. Meglen

Q. Could you please look at your deposition?

A. Ok

Q. Does that refresh your recollection with whom you reported to in executive management?

A. Errmmmm-

Q. Yes or No?

A. Yes it says primarily I reported to Paul Gongaware.. But…

Q. Does that refresh your recollection of who you primary reported to, Paul Gongaware

Objection: Judge: Over ruled, finish the question

Q. There was someone who had to approve the budget for This Is It

A. Yes

Q. That was Paul Gongaware

A. Of the budget, Yes

Q We are just talking about the budget correct

A. yessssss

Q. Does that refresh you recollection that you were primary reporting to Paul Gongaware

A. Yes, sir

Q. Now you also reviewed the budget

A. Yes

Q. And Mr. Woolley created it and Mr. Gongaware approved it

A.  Yes

Q. When you were in preparing for your testimony, you received and evidence record

A. I received a summary report, not a detailed report

Q. Did you review all the summary reports to refresh your memory before you testified here today

A. I don’t recall how many provisions were issued back in 2009, I reviewed two or three yesterday

Q. Did you bring a lawyer with you to review documents in preparation for this case

A. No

Q. So you only reviewed what AEG lawyers chose to show you

A. Yes

Q. Are these budgets, compilations of all the costs AEG were expecting to incur for This Is It

A. They were the costs that were expected to be incurred as long as, you know…those costs and services were in line with what they were contracted for

Mr. Panish asks Ms. Hollander to turn to a page in here deposition so that she could have a recollection of the compiled budget

AEG Objects, says it’s been a lengthy time since she gave her deposition;

Side bar

Q. Is it true a that there is budget for compensation for this tour

A. Yes

Q. And you testified that  in your deposition

A. Yes

Q. And when you were asked about the compensation section of the budget you didn’t mention contracts

A. No I did not

Q. You were told you can review your deposition which you made under penalty of perjury. And make any changes you wished

A. Yes

Q. And you made changes because of that penalty of perjury

A. I made one

Q. You never wrote in the deposition

A. I didn’t physically write in the deposition

Q. You were told to right the change in the deposition

A. Right

Q. Your lawyer made the change

A. Right

Q. You were told that we can read that deposition here in court in the AEG court hearing

A. That’s right

Q. The budget will include all costs for the tour

A. Yes

Q. Costs associated with performances

A. Yes

Q. Costs for taking the show on the road

A. Yes

Q. Getting all the gear to London

A. Yes

Q. Travel for some

A. Yes

Q. Housing for some

A. Yes

Q. Insurance

A. Yes

Q. Did I cover the a lot of it

A. Yes in broad strokes, yes

Q. These are just estimates and anticipations

A. Yes

Q. Cost that would have  incurred by AEG would have had to be paid, right

A. According to our company policy payment would have been made by…  execution of contract

Q. Do you have a document that say that

A. Yes we do, we have a comply users manual

Q. Mr. Gongaware could change that if he wanted on a case by case basis or otherwise

A. Yes

Q, He could ask for any of it to be changed, and you would change that, correct

A. Doesn’t mean we would change that

Q. People would work and he (Paul Gongaware) would pay them later

A. We had situations where contracts were signed later so pay was late. Due to the abrupt end of tour, deals were renegotiated…

Q. Is it true, people performed services and then after Mr. Jackson died they were paid

A. Yes because the contracts required amendment due to early termination of the tour

Q. Ma’am isn’t true some people worked, then signed contract later, they got paid

A. This is correct

Q. Do you know Travis Payne?

A. I know him as part of cast and crew

Q. Did you know he had a contract with AEG?

A. Yes

A. Did you know he worked without a contract?

A. I don’t know who worked without one. As far as payment would have happened would have been after serviced were rendered

Q. If a person performed their duties they were paid afterwards without a contract

A. It’s not my place to know that

Panish: takes deposition to witness, ask read line 3 through 14

Q. In your deposition it reads, IF AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR PERFORMS HIS/HER SERVICES ON THE THIS IS IT TOUR, WOULD YOU EXPECT AEG TO PAY THAT CONTRACTOR

A. TYPICALLY YES…. WE WOULD PAY

Q. Dr Murray was a Doctor performing his services to Mr Jackson..

Objection: by Stebbin, lacks foundation, Over rulled

Q. There is no reason whey they wouldn’t pay his or her obligations. Dr. Murray was the Doctor performing his services for Mr. Jackson

*Objection lacks foundation, overruled*

A. My understanding was that Dr. Murray was part of the budget, his services was listed on the budget for the tour on request of the artist

Mr. Panish can you read Ms. Hollander’s answer and my question back

Clerk reads back the question to Ms Hollander………..

Q. Answer the question please?

Objection by Stebbins, Overruled

A. Yes I have a problem with promising “Services” I don’t know what services were actually performed

Q. You saw Dr. Murray’s contract

A. I saw a draft at some time, I know I testified…

Mr. Panish: Ma’am you testified under oath in your deposition that you reviewed the contract signed by Dr. Murray, let’s take a look at that

Q. Page 176, this is the contract between AEG Live and Dr. Murray

A. Yes

Q. Now here on the last page of the contract itself, page 6… this is the contract that you review and was signed by Dr. Murray

A. Yes

Q. If we go to the effective date its May 1^st 2009

A. Yes

Q. While the contract was agreed upon and finalized in June of 2009, the retroactive start date for payment and acknowledgement of when Dr. Murray began work was on May 1^st 2009. Is that correct

A. Yes that’s correct

Q. Did you understand that Dr. Murray was providing services that day May 1^st 2009 until the day Mr. Jackson died; isn’t that true

AEG Objection, Overruled

A. My understanding is limited to what you are showing me on this page

Q. So you don’t have any understanding of whether Dr. Murray preformed any services

A. I was in the accounting department, I can’t say for sure, not me personally

Q. Did someone from AEG tell you that Dr. Murray was performing services for Mr. Jackson at his CarolWood Home?

A. No not in those specific terms that Dr Murray performed services to Mr Jackson at his residence in Carolwood

Q. Who told you Conrad Murray was to provided services for Mr. Jackson

A. Tim Woolley advised me that Dr. Murray was being engaged at the request of the artist

Q. And Dr. Murray was retained AEG

A. The contract is with AEG, yes

Q. AEG are the producers of This Is It

A. Yes

Q. And AEG agreed to retain the services of Dr. Murray

 AEG Objection by Stebbins, Overruled

Q. Is it true that this contract of Dr. Murray’s, you reviewed at the artist’s request its states, producers retained Dr. Murray’s services, yet Dr. Murray will act in line with the instructions the producers set forth and the producers a can terminate his contract if he doesn’t. What date does the contract take effect

A. The contract says that it takes effect May 1^st

Q. You say draft when talking about the Murray contract, did you see the being done in the draft process

A.  I’m using draft because the contract is not executed, meaning all parties didn’t sign it

Q. If Mr. Jackson didn’t die and he signed the contract and AEG signed the contract, Dr. Murray had already signed the contract…. AEG would owe Dr. Murray money right

AEG Objection by Stebbins: Overruled by Judge.

Q. If all parties singed the contract, it would have been a fully executed contract and I would have to have, if those cost were approved. There’s no reason why wouldn’t have paid Dr. Murray

Q. If Mr. Jackson wouldn’t have died, you would have had to pay the doctor

A. If all the terms of the contract was adhered to and remained consistent then, yes

Q. Have you seen any other drafts of this contract?

A. No

Q. Now, the only reason why you say this is draft contract for Dr. Murray is because no one on behalf of  AEG had signed it

A.  I say that because Mr. Jackson didn’t sign it.

Q. Mr. Jackson was dead and could not sign

A. Yes

Q. Do you have any evidence that Dr. Murray didn’t work for Mr. Jackson after being retained by AEG….

Objection By Stebbins: states Dr. Murray was hired by AEG, Overruled

A. I have no evidence to the contrary

Q. In the budget you included $300,000 to pay Dr. Murray

A. I did not

Q. I’m sorry Mr. Woolley created the budget, per AEG’s agreement with Dr. Murary for the current budget at the time for $300,000 because the doctor would be paid $150,000 a month. This was for two months’ pay and the contract was finalized in June.

A. There was $300,000 allotted for Dr. Murray

Q. And that was approved by Mr. Gongaware

A. Yes, that eventually would have been approved by Mr. Gongaware

Q. And the finances for London, there was more than a million dollars put in then tour budget for Dr. Murray

A. I don’t recall one million

Q. So that’s more than millions a million dollars, you’re an accountant can you please help me out. How many months is that from July 2009 to March 2010

A. Its 9 months

Q. And what’s 9 times $150,000 and that would amount to over a million dollars budgeted in for Dr. Murray

A. Yes

Q. So that we are clear, this budget was created by Mr. Woolley and approved by Mr. Gongaware. This budget was to go through to March 2010 for Dr. Murray’s compensation portion only

A. Yes

Mr. Panish: Ok let’s take a look at exhibit No. 179-2 This is the budget

AEG Objection, judge says to show the budget to Ms. Hollander and Mr. Panish shows it to her. Ms. Stebbins approaches Mr. Panish while he is with the witness. (Side note from TeamMichaelJackson: OMG STEBBINS LOOKS VERY NERVOUS, OUT OF CONTROL! She walked up to the witness and Panish, she is NOT permitted to do so without first asking the Judges permission)

Back and forth exchange ensues between Ms. Stebbins, judge Palazuelos and Mr. Panish: All overruled!

Mr. Panish: Let me show you this, 641-13… Here’s a memo dated May 20^th 2009 did you write this memo

A. Yes

Q. It was created May 11^th 2009 yet its dated may 20^th

A. Ermmm……………….

Q. Do you remember you testified in your deposition that you this on created May 11^th?

A. I really don’t know

Mr. Panish: Ok let look at next page

Q. Is this one of the documents that AEG lawyers showed you in order for you to prepare, for your testimony today?

A. I’m familiar with this document

Q. Did counsel show you these documents?

A. Yes, I looked at it yesterday

Q. Just like they (AEG Lawyers) showed you all the other documents I presented to you today in this court

Objection: Stebbins: Judge calls a Sidebar:

BREAK: (Side note: WITNESS LOOKS EXTREAMLY STROPPY!!!! OMG JURY WITNESSING ALL THIS. Witness is not being truthful, it’s evident to many, we are shocked the judge didn’t to anything to this witness who is clearly be deceitful whilst under Oath.)

Q. Ms. Hollander is this notebook of documents which you reviewed before coming to testify in court today

A. It appears to be

Q. I added them all up, there seems to be 80

A. We flipped through it

Q. A Few have been removed? Did you know if there are any you didn’t review

A. Yes, Some were blank

q. And when you were in the hallway counsel removed some. I saw that

A. Yes

Q. Do you know by looking through here which ones were removed?

A. That I can’t answer

Ms. Stebbins: I removed the ones the witness didn’t see.

Panish: I was standing right outside the door, I saw exctly what was happening

Stebbins:  I represent I gave to Mr. Panish every document the witness reviewed

Judge Palazuelos: Some were blacked,

Stebbins: Now they are all in full,

Panish: Your honore……

Judge: Let’s keep going

Q. AEG hired Michael Jordan

Court: Everybody burst out laughing…..

Panish: Sorry, yeah, I was watching something about him last night…. Hahah

Q. AEG made advances at least one to Mr. Jackson during preparations for the This Is It tour

A. Yes

Q. These advances were paid directly to Michael Jackson

A. I don’t know, I don’t have a recollection as to who the payee was

Q. Was there advance paid to Michael Jackson, yes or no

A. They were paid on behalf of, in effect to Mr. Jackson. I’m not trying to give an evasive answer

Q. AEGLive paid advance to Mr Jackson. Yes or No

A. Yes, but they are recoup-able at some point

Q. There were also advances paid to others that AEG wanted to get back from Michael Jackson

A. Yes

Q. Ant this is a cost, not advance

A. Yes,

Q. And if it’s a cost not an advance, it should be reported as so, not an advance

A. Yes

Q. Otherwise it would not be done correctly

A. Correct

Q. Cost would be something AEG would incur and pay, correct

A. Yes

Q. And they don’t get paid back from the artist, do they

A. It depends on the situation

Mr. Panish: Let’s look at this exhibit No. …, you wrote this correct

A. Yes

Q. This was created May 11th 2009

A. Yes Im having problem with the date, its dated of May 20^th

Q. That was in the binder that you went over with counsel

A. Yes

Q. When you created it, it was in May 11th 2009

A. Yes

Q. And when was the tour supposed to start

A. My recollection is the first week of July

Q. So this was roughly created two months before the tour was supposed to start

A. Yes

Q. And this was procedure for the contracts and disbursements you prepared

A. Yes

Q. At the top of the document its says AEG Productions

A. Yes

Q. So this is also AEG Live

A. Yes

Q. You were the authorized person of AEG LLC

A. Yes

Q. AEG Live is a division within AEG LLC

A. Yes

Q. AEG’s other business is producing tours

A.  Yes

Q. They also concert promoter’s, correct

A. Yes

Q. All contracts were supposed to be issued by AEG Live Productions, correct

A. ermm……….. This is the standard procedure was AEG Live Productions, yes

Q. Not all contracts should have been issued as AEG Live Productions

A. I don’t know if that was the preference or what the legal department asked

Q. Is the answer to the question yes

A. Yes

Q. Is there something you didn’t understand?

A. No

Q. So AEG Live Productions doesn’t have employees

A. No

Q. So AEG Live Productions employees and contractors were under AEG Live, and were not employed contracted by AEG Live Productions

A. Yes

Q. And Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Woolley, were employed by AEG Live, correct

A.  Mr. Gongaware yes… Mr. Woolley I don’t know… seriously I don’t know… his quote unquote employer, as an independent contractor

Q. Are you in charge of people being paid exactly like Mr. Woolley?

A. Yes

Q. Who prepared the checks for payment, was it you

A. Yes

Q. Who gave instructions for these payments and how they should be paid

A. Mr. Woolley

Q. So Mr. Woolley gave instructions of those that had to be paid

A. Not everyone

Q. And this money comes from AEG Live, correct

A. Yes

Q. So do you know those that would be paid that were not employed by the company?

A. We have managers to process payment, ermmmm…  like crew related payment, which was agreed upon at the beginning of tour

Q. So you’re saying they are paid out monies of whatever amount at managers’ authority

A.  No Mr. Woolley had to authorize and submit to payroll service

Q. So Mr. Woolley can say pay a million dollars to so and so

A. No he created and simultaneously submitted payroll report for approval and I get copy

Q. So all payment reports go to you

A. I was copied on them

Q. All payment budgets had to be reviewed by Mr. Woolley

A. They were submitted by Mr. Woolley based on projections and needs of the tour

Q. You didn’t have authority to make payments based on services?

A. As Vice President, I have certain authority

Q. Can you approve payment to any party on the tour?

A. No

Q. Mr. Woolley had authority to pay

A. Those needed to be paid was added to the budget

Q. Whose payments couldn’t be approved by Mr. Woolley?

A. Mr. Woolley submitted approved budget for payment to payroll. Mr. Woolley had authority to pay (by submitting to payroll) who was established in the approved budget

Q. Was there anyone Mr. Woolley didn’t have authority to pay?

A. Now he submitted everything

Q. So it a yes

A. Yes

Mr. Panish: There was a payment matrix (pay structure) that Michael Jackson had, for the tour. There is an Id on the statement that is specific to Mr. Jackson’s pay matrix.

I am going to present you with this exhibit. It’s an approval matrix for all payment disbursements provided to MJ.

Q. Who is MJ?

A. That would be Michael Jackson

Q. So you’re familiar with this document

A. Yes

Q. And you reviewed this document before your testimony here

A. Yes

Judge Palazuelos questions the exhibit numbers.

Ms. Stebbins: Witness didn’t know if this was an exhibit or not, two docs were stapled together.

Judge: You can ask the witness.

Mr. Panish: I’m go to read the deposition, page 55 line 3 through 6. MJ approval matrix

Q. Pasted here it reads, last approval MJ matrix

A. YES

Q. So these two pages, the last two pages is the MJ approval matrix

A. Yes

Q. OK, now your deposition *we can put that up* is this your deposition

A. Yes

Q. This is what you just testified under oath

A. Yes

Mr. Panish: Ok so, can we focus on the approval level

Q. Payment and amount of payments, approval was required

A. Yes

Mr. Panish: No questions to this exhibit, right.

A.  Yes.

Q. This is a document you wrote

A.  I’m not going to argue with you.

Mr. Panish: You can argue. Judge: Mr. Panish no more comments.

Mr. Panish: No comment

Q. Ok… here we see $25,000 Siegel; that means Mr. Siegel can approve up to $25,000 on his own

A. Yes

Q. Mr. Woolley can approve up to $50,000

A. Yes

Q. Mr. Phillips up to $250,000

A. Yes

Q. Now let’s go down to this line, $500,000 is that Mr. Gongaware

A. Yes

Q. Then we go to the $2.5 million dollar approval mark, signatures required are Paul Gongaware, John Meglen, Rick Webking, Tim Leiweke and Dan Beckerman

A. Yes

Q. Above $2.5 million all the aforementioned people plus TNC Denver, and these initials stand for The Nature Conservancy

A. Yes

Q. What’s that,

A the parent company of AEG Live

Q. That’s Mr. Anschutz company

A. Yes

Q. Now, Mr. Leiweke…that’s

A. Yes that’s Tim Leiweke

Q. And who’s that

A. I don’t know his exact title, he’s a senior reporting to Mr. Anschutz

Q. Do you update Mr. Anschutz on what’s going on?

A. Mr. Anschutz is the highest up, he know what’s going on. It’s not my duty to update Mr. Anschutz

Q. We were talking about Mr. Anschutz being updated, here is email dated May 18^th 2009 to you from Mr. Gongaware right

A. Yes that’s right

Q. And CC on it was Mr. Woolley, John Meglen and Jennifer

A. Yes that’s right and Jennifer was CC because she reports to me

Panish reads email, Dear Tim we are in the process of pulling together …… your update on the forecast assumption is needed by tomorrow at the latest…. Wants to know if we arein…. Respect of of the profit split between USA and UK

Q. Did you write that

A. Yes

Q. Request for an urgent forecast…  made… for Mr Ansthutz

A. That’s what it says

Q. Do you generally get urgent emails like this

A. We do from time to time, this came from Mr Webking

Q. So there is another from Mr Webking.

A. I don’t remember

Q. Did he write to you or call you

A. I don’t remember

Q. So Mr. Anschutz wanted to know what kind of profits were to be made for This Is It

A.  Yes he wanted to know a projections of profits

Q. He wanted to know how much money was made in the USA and UK

A. Yes

Q. Is it your job to gather that information and provide to Mr. Anschutz

A. Yes but Mr. Webking asked me for his info

Q. But you knew it was going to Mr. Anschutz

A. Yes

Q. Regarding the financial forecast, you have to keep updating

A. Yes

Q. You take the amount of revenue and put that against deductions and what’s left would be the net profit, is that correct

A. Absolutely, in simple terms

Q. And you knew Mr. Anschutz would like to look at this information

A. I was told that information was needed for the company’s forecast

Q. So you wanted to make sure that the forecast was accurate before you sent it to Mr. Webking to send to Mr. Anschutz

A. We would want to ensure that our forecast was accurate company-wide for anyone

Q. Did Mr. Gongaware had authority to make a contract within a contract?

A. Yes

Q. Negotiate a contract within a contract

A. Yes

Q. And you know there was a contract agreement between AEG Live GCA and Dr. Murray

A. Yes

Q. And you saw that agreement in 2009, didn’t you

A. Yes

Q. And it was your understanding, that AEG’s legal department were to determine the provisions that was going into the independent contractor contract for Dr. Murray

A. Sorry can you repeat that

Q. And it was your understanding that someone in the legal department would be the one determining what would be the provisions in the Murray contract

A. Yes

Q. How many lawyers worked in the legal department at that time

A. Ahhh, to my recollection it was about 3 lawyers full time

Q. One of the person in charge of that

A. Yes, Mr. Shawn Trell

Q. Is he here today in court

A. Yes he is here today

Q. In 2009, Mr. Trell was general council vice price of AEG Live

A. Yes

Q. Do you know if AEG Live ever performed a background check on Dr. Murray?

A. I’m not aware of anything in that regard

Q. For the This Is It tour, AEG Live included compensation in its budget for Dr. Murray

A. That’s correct

Q. But you don’t know who negotiated the compensation for Dr. Murray’s contract is that correct

A. Yes that’s correct

Q. And Dr. Murray was the only physician Mr. Gongaware for AEG Live had budgeted in for this This Is It tours

A. That’s correct

Mr. Panish: I want to show you another exhibit and if you want to take a look please at your deposition that’s fine

A. Im sorry

Q. That’s ok, this is the recording of your depostion

A, it says on this line, im confused

Q. Let me show you

A. Sure

Q. Ok now, this is an email again from Mr. Woolley, you don’t know who Mr. Woolley worked for

A. No that wasn’t the intent, I didn’t know who or what legal entity he may have had a contract with

Q. And you review all the paper work every month,

A. every other week (laughter)

Q. Was Mr. Woolley’s name on the list for compensation, for people that were to be paid?

A. Yes

Q. Who paid Mr. Woolley?

A. AEG Live

Q. And this email is to Mr. Phillips and Mr. Webking, the controller and you’re the controller and Mr. Gongaware of Concerts West

A. Yes

Q. This says that there’s an attachment

A. Yes

Q. And this was sent by Mr. Woolley and what did he attach

A. Well it says, AEG O2 doc, that’s the description of the transaction. Which would be compensation for the doctor in London. It’s an explanation of difference between compensation in the US and the UK

Q. And the purpose of this email was to keep you in the loop that it would Dr. Murray and not Dr. Finkelstein

A. Yes

Q. So you were involved in the process, that’s you were on the email

A. Yes

Q. And on this page at the top, its talk about the expenses for the tour, rehearsals and various expense associate

A. Yes

Q. This is where you discuss, not you, Mr. Woolley discussed the change to the budget

A. Yes

Q. And this was provided to you

A. Yes

Q. And in the email where Mr. Woolley discussed the changes, did he also talk about the reasons why

A. Yes

Q. And the first budget this was dated May 19^th and was subject 16 of the email

A. Yes that’s right

Q. So Mr. Woolley prepared subject 16 and sent 19^th

AEG Objection

A. Based on the description I would concur yes

Q. That changes discussed, was a renegotiation for Dr. Murray

A. Yes that’s common practice

Mr. Panish: Ok let’s go to number 29, this email is from May 16^th can you read please

Umm the number Dr. Murray wishes to have to be permanent physician throughout the pre tour and tour plus options is $150,000 and has be newly budgeted.

Q. That means $300,000 for the pre- tour which were the 2 months in LA, May and June, is that correct

A. Yes that’s correct

Q. And this was an expected payment…expense

A. Yes

Q. You don’t put in unexpected payments in do you

A. Umm well no

Q. You don’t say I have unexpected bills at McDonald’s

A. No,

Q. So you put things in because you want to be as accurate as possible on what your expenses are

A. Yes

Q. This was put in the budget for Dr. Murray to receive $150,000 a month

A. Yes

Q. Did anyone ever tell you take that compensation for the doctor out?

A. It’s not my role

Q. Please answer ther question

A. No, no, no

Q. Did you speak to Mr. Woolley about including the $150,000 a month compensation for Dr. Murray didn’t you?

A. No

Q. Why didn’t you?

A. I… I have the emails from Mr. Woolley, I’m sure we talked about at some point

Q. Did you speak to Mr. Trell general counsel about Dr. Murray’s compensation of $150,000.00pm?

A. I spoke with him, but our conversation wasn’t about the budget

Q. You didn’t answer… did you speak to Mr. Trell about this budget allotted for Dr. Murray yes or no….

*the courts waits, witness thinks*

Mr. Panish: Let me ask the question again… did you speak to Mr. Woolley, about the 150,000 compensation for Dr. Murray being added to the budget

A. I spoke to Mr. Woolley about the inclusions and my conversation with Mr. Trell we discussed Dr. Murray and it was…..

* courts waits again*

A. Yes if you want to put it that way he (Trell) was anticipated being a part of this project

Mr. Panish wants to play more Of Ms. Hollander’s deposition from December 8^th 2011.

Ms. Stebbins looking and waiting  

Mr. Panish we are waiting for you to play it.

Judge was it 84 line 17, we are referring to. Now some discussions with the judge

Q. So you talked to Mr. Woolley and Mr. Trell about inclusion of Dr. Murray in the budget

*Object, overruled*

A. I talked to Mr. Woolley about the inclusion of Dr. Murray in the budget and would have talked to Mr. Trell about details of that

Q. Did you discuss with Mr Woolley and Mr Trell about the inclusion of Dr. Murray in the budget or the details of it, yes or no…?

A. In my answer I said I discussed with Mr. Woolley the inclusion, I don’t agree with the semantics

Judge Palazuelos: You are saying yes or no

A. I’m not trying to evade anything

Judge Palazuelos: Play it (referring to Hollander deposition)

Q. Do you recall as you sit her now, ever telling anyone about AEG Live’s decision to include compensation for Dr. Murray into the tour budget

A. Yes

Q. And who did you talk to about that decision

A. Tim Woolley

Q. Anyone else?

A. Probably Shawn Trell….. You know im a person who has not been through this sort of thing before, I never said I didn’t speak to Mr Trell, it was an honest answer then, it’s a honest answer now!

Mr. Panish plays video recording of Ms. Hollander deposition, in the recorded depostion when Mrs Hollander is asked “Did you discuss with anyone about including Dr Murray on the budget for This Is It tour?  SHE REPLIED  “Yes Mr Woolley and Mr Trell”

Then Mr Panish shows Ms Hollander transcripts of her video deposition.

A. This is hard to read

Q. OK im going to blow it up for you, you have seen this before

A. Yes

Q. You reviewed this all in preparation for your testimony

A. Yes

Q.  Let’s go to where it says… by the way is there a day on this, 16 of May 2009

A. I can see that

Q. Alright are you with me now

A. Yes

Q. So in a broader stoke this is a financial projection from May 16^th 2009

A. Yes

Q. Expenses, medical management, medical… all included

A. Yes

Q. $300,000 is in one column, $450,000 in the next…. And finally $750,000

A. Yes

Q. And this is for Dr. Murray yes

A. In my deposition we established it was for Dr. Murray

Q. Is that a yes?

A. Yes

Q. Pre tour $300,000 and another $450,000 and this was as of May 16^th 2009. This what Mr. Woolley sent to you and you passed it on to Mr. Webking who as you understand passed the approved inclusion into the tour budget on to Mr. Anschutz; right….

A. Ummm yes

Q. If you add them all up $300,000 $450,000 $750,000 this comes to $1.5 million included in the budget for Dr. Murray is that right

A. I can only speak for what’s on this paper, this is the only budget that I have seen

Q. Is this the budget that you reviewed and sent to Mr. Webking and then sent to Mr. Anschutz

A. This version does not say that

Q. Ok who was it to be paid to?

A. I doesn’t say $1.5 million

Q. Ok, this clearly reads for medical management and there is the numbers here

A. Yes

Q. Remember we are talking about number

A. Yes Ok

Q. What number is this?

A. 430?

Q. Whose number is that?

A. That is Mr. Woolley’s numbering system

Q. Mr. Woolley created that code as identifier for medical management daily care

A. Yes

Q. And that medical management daily care was referring to Dr. Murray

A. Yes

Q. The first $300,000 was referring to Dr. Murray’s first two month pay, right

A. Yes

Q Then we also talked about about $450,000 for Dr Murray

A. This only refers to $300,000

Q. As of,, we have largely budgetd for Dr Murray

A. Yes

Q. That was added after February 7th 2009

A. Yes

Q. That was the first budget update sent to Mr Anshutz.

A. Which one

Q. This one

A. Yes

Q. This budget here that we looked at from May 16th, it’s the first revised budget that was sent to Phillip Anschutz regarding the This Is It tour

A. I can’t say for certain that this was the first one. It was part of that report created by Mr. Woolley

Q. Can you tell me if you have any recollection prior to this revised budget prepared by Mr. Woolley was sent by you sent to Mr. Webking or Mr. Anschutz

A. No I have no recollection of any one prior to that

Mr. Panish: I’d like to show exhibit 179-3, can you take a take a look at this please

AEG Objection overruled

Q. Have you seen this document before, it says code 430 medical management

A. Yes

Q. It says medical management, see that

A. Yes

Q. Is it hard for you to see

A. I can see it

Q. 430, that’s the name of the code giving to Dr. Murray’s services. Is this your recollection during this process, the 430 code was for medical management daily care

A. Yes looks like same the format,

Q. Do you have any reason, to believe it’s not an AEG Live coding, used for This Is It tour budget?

A. No

AEG Objection,

Panish: she never answered the question.

Judge:  have you seen this document before.

Ms. Hollander: I got updates all the time.

Judge: Did you see this type of thing.

Ms. Hollander: Yes.

Judge: Do you have any reason to belive it is not the document as statee

Ms Hollander: No, buts it a random document, it could have been prepared then sent to someone else and not distributed to me

Q. Do you have any reason to believe he (Mr. Woolley) didn’t send this to you

A. Um.. its very possible, he could have

A. Not sure

Q. Did he ever do that?

A. I can’t say one way or the other

Q. Did you have any reason to believe you didn’t get them all?

A. I can’t say I didn’t get it and I can’t prove that I got them all

SIDE BAR……

Judge: Alright off the record, show her the first part

Stebbins: Objection

Q. Okay, see this

A. Yes

Q. Do you have any reason to believe you did not get this

A. I have no way of knowing what was forwarded to me

Q. But it would be normal practice that these budget updates would be only sent to you, correct

A. They could have been sent to me, or not to me

Q This is a budget report

A. Yes, but Mr Woolley does not report to me

Q. Lets go to page 3 of you depostion

A. Okay

Q. Does that look like the type of budget Mr Woolley would prepare and send to you

A. Yes

Q. Any reason to belived that something sent to you was not recieed

A. I cant say I received every single report

JUDGE LET JURY GO HOME, WE CAN DISCUSS, 9.30 AM TOMORROW

Travis Payne

(Associate Director/Choreographer, This Is It)

Defendant’s Witness.

Typed by WendyLovesMJ

Direct examination by Jessica Stebbins.

Q         Yesterday we talked about your involvement in This Is It, do you remember?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you have a contract?

A          Yes.

Q         And was that contract with AEGLive?

A          AEGLive.

Q         Did Michael Jackson get personally get involved with negotiating your contract with AEGLive?

A          Yes. We were at a standstill about the contract being signed — about my being  engaged to work –  because AEG was at a deadlock with my agent. So Michael spoke to them.

Q         AEG didn’t want to pay you as much as Mr. Jackson pays you?

A          You could say that. The amount definitely was not inline with my standard operating cost.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson speak to AEG on your behalf?

A          He asked them to pay my standard cost.

Q         So Mr. Jackson solved the problem?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you get the amount you wanted?

A          It was fair.

Q         We have been talking about  preparations at Center Staging and private rehearsals with Mr. Jackson. Now let’s talk about the complaint and conversation with production about Mr. Jackson missing rehearsals at the Forum and Staples Center, okay?

A          Yes.

Q         So do you know why Mr. Jackson missed rehearsals?

A          No.

Q         You just knew he was not showing up, correct?

A          Yes.

Panish:  Objection.  Payne answers anyway.  Judge tells him not to answer.

AEG Stebbins suggests the answer.

Panish:  Objection.  Payne is made to wait from answering by the judge.

Q         Mr. Payne, had you asked why Mr Jackson why he was not at rehearsals?

A          No.

Q         Did you still see Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         How did he seem to you?

A          He was busy with his work. He wasn’t just working with the crew and production on This Is It.  He was also working on an album and a book. And other things to go into his book.

Q         So he was not just working on the This Is It Tour, is that correct?

A          Correct.

Q         You say yesterday that Mr. Jackson was tired. Do you know why?

Panish:  Objection.  Judge:  Overruled.

A          Michael explained to me he had trouble sleeping. But he was excited about touring again, that was it.

Q         During this time period did you notice Mr. Jackson losing weight?

A          Michael was always thin, from the time I met Michael in April I noticed he was thinner. How much he may have lost from April to June, I don’t know.

Q         Did you talk to Mr. Jackson about his possibly having lost some weight?

A          Yes, I told him: You’re looking thin. He said: Well, I’m getting down to my fighting weight.

Q         Did you doubt what he told you?

A          No. He was always honest with me. I had no reason to doubt him.

Q         How did he seem at rehearsals?

A          Some days better than others in his productivity and energy level.  He was mainly excited.  He had good days and bad days.

Q         Did you ever see him sick during this time period?

A          Yes, one day in particular near the end or our process. He was cold. He ultimately needed a blanket and heater to be comfortable in rehearsal. Um. I think the frustration and desire to get everything together had him on edge. But I took it that he was probably fighting cold. But I’m not certain.

Q         Other than that one time, did Mr. Jackson ever show those symptoms again?

A          Not as extreme as that.

Q         So it did not happen again?

A          No. Sometimes he was tired and lethargic and had to be, not convinced, but supported throughout rehearsals.

Q         How many times did Mr. Jackson miss rehearsals?

A          Not many.

Q         Less the five times?

A          Maybe about five.

Q         Were these times throughout the whole period of preparations for the tour? What period of time was this?

Panish: Objection.

Q         Were these times in June or through the entire period of This Is It rehearsals?

A          Not many more then 5 times during the company rehearsals with the whole group. April, May and June.

Q         Other then that, were there any times when Mr. Jackson could not perform at all?

A          I know there was a time when Kenny Ortega sent Michael home. I don’t know the reasoning. There was no other time. That was the only time.

Q         Was it the same thing with needing a blanket and heater?

A          I don’t recall.

Q         Could it have been the same night?

A          I’m not certain.

(Stebbins exhibits an email)

Q         This email was forwarded to you on June 14^th from  Mr. Ortega?

A          Um. I believe so. It says to Travis, sure.

Q         Did you receive this June 14^th?

A          Yes.

Q         Okay. I want to ask you some questions about it. The second page. Mr. Ortega writes to Mr. Gongaware: Were you aware that MJ’s doctor didn’t permit him to attend rehearsal yesterday? Are Randy and Frank aware of this? Please have them stay on top of his health situation. Without invading MJ’s privacy, it might be good idea to talk to his doctor to make sure everything MJ requires is in place, who is responsible for MJ getting proper nourishment/vitamins/therapy everyday? Personally, I feel he should have a top Nutritionist and Physical Therapist working with him on a regular basis. The demand on this guy are mentally and physically extraordinary! The show requirements exhaust our 20 year olds. Please don’t underestimate the need to stay on top of this.

Do you recall seeing this email?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you agree with Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson should have nutritionist and therapist?

A          Yes, I know there was a chef who spent a lot of time at the residence. But there’s another part of that. When traveling, there is full kitchen staff that travels with us. Michael would have a special chef dedicated to him only. During the rehearsals in L.A. that wasn’t that case.

Panish:  Objection.  Judge: Strike last remark.

Q         Did you discuss a physical therapist with Mr. Jackson?

A          We spoke because I’m a fan of massage and I suggested to Michael that maybe he should consider that. He didn’t want that. He thought it would be a violation of his personal space. We arranged for a physical therapist who treats at the Olympian Games to tend to Michael, give him vitamins. That type of thing. He was from Utah. Kenny has a relationship with this man, he called him. Kenny worked on the opening ceremony at the Olympics. But we knew Michael was not going to go through with it. We could tell by his facial expression.

Q         So you tried to get this therapist for Mr. Jackson and he didn’t want it, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Do you recall if it was before or after this email chain that you saw Mr. Jackson that one time with a blanket and heater?

A          I think it was — I believe Michael would have been with the blanket and heater after this email.

Q         Do you know what date that was?

A          I’m not sure.

(Stebbins exhibits another email)

Q         This email is from Mr. Gongaware and reads: Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting w/ the doctor. We want to remind (Murray) that it is AEG, not MJ, who is paying his salary. We want to remind him what is expected of him,This shows that it was forwarded to you, correct?

A         Yes.

Q         Do you have an understanding of what this email refers to?

A          I understand that it was a meeting requested with Dr. Murray for Monday. And the next line I took to understand that AEG was paying Dr. Murray’s salary, not Michael.

Q         Did you have any conversations with anyone regarding this email?

A          No. It wasn’t necessary.

Q         Did you think it related to Mr. Ortega’s email from June 14^th?

A          To my understanding, Dr. Murray was there to oversee everything, not any specific things. He was in charge of Michael. I had no reason to question that. I did not assume. I thought that the doctor that had been selected to work with Michael was top notch.

Q         When was the first time you met Dr. Murray?

A          I was introduced to him by Michael at the house in Carolwood.  I was going up the steps from basement dance studio to the ground level and Dr. Murray was going downstairs. Michael introduced us.

Q         How did Mr. Jackson introduce you?

A          This is Dr Murray my doctor.

Q         Did you ever go into Mr. Jackson’s bedroo on the upper floors?

A          No.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson confide in you about medical care?

A          No.

Q         Did you have an understanding of Dr. Murray’s role with Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes it was my understanding he was there to oversee everything to do with Michael, like it states in his job description.

Q         After you saw Mr. Jackson in June at the Forum, at some point did you move to the Staples Center?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson ill at the Forum or the Staples Center?

A          I believe at  Staples Center.

(Stebbins shows This Is It work schedule calendar)

Q         This says the rehearsals in June were for the first week at the Forum, the second week at the Forum, and the last week at the Staples Center, right?

A          Yes.

Q         And Mr. Jackson passed away on June 25^th?

A          Yes.

Q         And you were only rehearsing at the Staples Center during that last week?

A          Yes. According to this, yes.

Q         Did you meet Dr. Murray again?

A.         Yes

Q.        When?

A          I believe it was at the Staples Center. I was leaving for the night. Well it was before leaving rehearsals for the night. I just saw Dr. Murray show up. I said: Good evening.

Q         And when was that?

A          I believe it was at the Staples Center, in the hallway

Q         In the last week of Mr. Jackson’s life, the final rehearsals were June 23^rd and 24^th, correct?

A          Yes.

(Stebbins exhibits another email)

Q         Within this email chain, let’s look at the date, it is June 22^nd.

A.         Yes I don’t know the day of week

Q.– Monday.

A.         Okay.

Q.        And Is this another set of your notes?

A          Yes.

Q         Ermm do you recall this meeting on June 22^nd, meeting with –

A.         Meeting ermmm…

Panish:  Objection. Leading and Suggestive.

Q         What is this email in reference to?

A          These are notes I took at the Carolwood residence, asking to please give them to Mr Jackson at his  earliest convenience.

Q         You made these notes at rehearsal? What do you mean?

A          I remember what happened, but not the details.

Q         And do you recall whether Mr. Jackson was ill on this day?

A          No. I don’t. He could have been, but if he was ill the session wouldn’t have happened.

Q         So Mr Jackson was not ill on June 22^nd?

A          No probably not the 22^nd.

Q         You said at some time  Mr. Jackson had a cold?

A          Yes if  someone has a blanket wrapped around them. I would think it was flu like symptoms.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson appear flu like to you on June 22^nd?

A          Not as bad as he did when he needed to be seated by a heater with the blanket.

Q         Did he perform the show through rehearsal?

A          Parts.

Q         How much?

A          Not exactly sure how much. But I can say we intended to do a piece of the show that night. You perfect chunks, bits of the production at a time. So he was able to do bits of those chunks.

Q         Do you remember if Mr Jackson rehearsed on June 23^rd?

A          The songs

Q         Yes

A          I don’t remember.

Q         Was it a full show or half a show?

A          I can’t speak certainly about that.

Q         How was Mr. Jackson‘s performance?

A          He was in working process. Not show standard. He was reading, was processing. I didn’t expect him to be performing as if he were in front of a crowd because he wasn’t.

Q         Did he kick in later?

A          The performance would float. Some days were good, some days were not good. The last two days were good.

Q         Did he seem happy?

A          Yes.

Q         Would you describe his performance as doing wonderfully well?

A          I thought he was on his way to the goals he set for himself.

Q         Did you have any doubts about Michael Jackson’s ability to perform the shows?

A          No.

Q         Did you feel anything was wrong with him?

A          All I saw was improvement and that we were getting closer to the goals.

Q         Was he noticeably good?

A         He had improved then what he was in the past.

Q         Did you know what would happen the next day?

A          Of course not.

Q         I know this is difficult. Can you say how you found our about Mr. Jackson‘s passing?

A          I was headed to my 2pm rehearsal with Michael at Carolwood. I was on Highland Avenue and I got a call from my mother saying she saw reports on the news. I told her: I’m on my way to rehearsal and I’m sure everything is fine. As I got closer, I heard an announcement on the radio. I called Staples Center and spoke to Stacy. I asked her if anything was up. She said no we’re rehearsing. I continued to drive to Carolwood. Then I got a call before arriving at the residence, saying there was an emergency at the house and to go to the Staples Center, not to the house. So I went to Staples. We were rehearsing Smooth Criminal. We were optimistic of his arrival. The staff were waiting to for any information. I remember Kenny got several calls. On the last call from Randy and Paul, I remember Kenny saying: Tell me something that will make me know it’s you and that this is true. Well apparently he got recognitions on the phone. I remember him collapsing in his seat and crying.

Q         Did you have any idea what was going on?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see Mr. Jackson drink alcohol?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see Mr. Jackson take any prescription medications?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever observe Mr Jackson appear to you to be under the influence?

A          Yes.

Q         When?

A          Sometimes in rehearsal Michael would appear — you know, just a little loopy.  I thought he was being assisted or under the influence of something, mostly when he would come to rehearsals from the dermatologist.

Q         Mr. Jackson’s dermatologist, is that Dr. Klein?

A          That’s the only one I know of. And a couple of times Michael appeared groggy in the morning. I put it down to that he was just waking up, from sleeping.

Q         How many times did Mr. Jackson appear under the influence after his dermatology appointments?

A          3 or 4 times.

Q         Do you remember when?

A          One day in particular, I don’t remember which day. I remember Andre Crouch, his vocalist teacher had come to a meeting. Prior to that meeting, Michael seemed a little not himself.

Q         Was this at Center Staging or the Forum?

A          It was at Center Staging.

Q         You say 3 or 4 times a week. Did you think Mr. Jackson had a problem prescription medication?

A          No.

Q         Did you think he had just come from a procedure?

A          Yes.

Panish:  Objection.

Q         What was your understanding?

A          My understanding was that because he was returning to the stage, Michael was undergoing personal cosmetic procedures, so he could feel good about himself and do a great job.

Q         Did you feel Mr. Jackson probably  or had a dependency to prescription medication?

A          I didn’t see it as a problem.

Q         You were not concerned this may be a problem?

A          No.

Q         Let’s go back to your preparations for This Is It. You talked about the Drill?

A          Yes.

Q         You worked on it?

A          Yes.

Q         I’m going to show you a video clip from TII. It shows two men in dark clothes doing drill training. Where were you when this was filmed?

A          Culver City Studio.

Q         When was this filmed?

A          June 2009.

Q         What were you doing?

A          The piece to insert into the footage for This Is It background. ………….
…………………………………………………………………….

Q         Was this in early June?

A          Probably. May. I know in order to do this amount of work, it couldn’t have been that much after the first week in June.

Q         The show’s date stamp says June 4^th.

A          Okay.

(Stebbins plays clip from This Is It, scene shows members of the company talking, saying: Michael’s coming. Shows Michael enter in black jacket — talking about the drill. He counts off: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Michael is showing the company how to do the drill. Payne is in the clip)

Q         Is that you with the white on your sleeves?

A          Yes.

Q         Is this you and Mr. Jackson working on the drill?

A          Yes.

(Stebbins shows more footage from This Is It of Michael and the others doing the Drill, showing the green screen. Now shows a bit of on stage footage — ” whose bad”. Jumps from scene to scene)

Q         Is that you and Mr. Jackson putting it together?

A          Yes.

Q         There are changes of scene?

A          Yes. The idea was to show various days, and  over days, so you can see the number happening.

Q         Were you involved in putting together the This Is It footage?

A          Yes.

Q         Was the footage altered in any way to look better?

A          No. It was not altered, but we would edit it. I picked MJ’s best shots, that I thought he would appreciate.

Q         Was This Is It an accurate performance, did it represent the clips as they were on that day, was it real?

A          Yes.

Q         Was it fake?

A          No, no. I wanted to go back and reshoot certain things. Kenny said: No, that wouldn’t be a documentary. So some things were not my favorite shots, but they were included. It was real.

Stebbins: I want to show you one more clip.

(Stebbins plays This Is It clip with Michael and Orianthi — Michael singling a bit of They Don’t Care About Us and History, wearing red shirt and jacket)

A          Sometimes its difficult to identify where and when the shot was taken, the location.

Q.        Can you identify where, this footage was filmed?

A          It’s not at Center Staging. Hmmm.

Q         Is it at the Staple Center?

A          Umm. Can I see more and try to tell you the venue.  (long pause)  I’m not certain where this was done.

Q         Was that Mr. Jackson performing?

A          Yes.

Cross examination by Jackson attorney, Panish.

Q         In the This Is It footage we’ve just looked at, was there a track of a song playing?

A          Define track.

Q         Music?

A          Yes.

Q         So Michael Jackson was not singing and dancing?

A          I don’t understand what you’re saying.

Q         Was there a music or dance track playing?

A          Do you mean a track of music? That’s different, sir.

Q         Sir, Michael Jackson never performed the entire show all the way through, correct?

A          Correct.

Q         And many had concerns he would not be able to perform the whole show, correct?

A          Some may have, yes.

Q         Before you  came here, did you view anything?

A          Yes, I viewed my deposition.

Q         Who gave your deposition to you?

A          I purchased it.

Q         From where did you purchase your deposition?

A          From the entity who recorded it.

Q         Were you under oath in your deposition?

A          Yes.

Q         And you told the truth?

A          Yes, I did my best.

Q         What else did you do or watch other than your deposition before testifying today?

A          Nothing.

Q         Did you met anyone?

A          No.

Q         Did you talk to Stacy Walker?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you talk to her about her testimony?

A          Of course not.

Q         What was your impression of Michael Jackson? What was he like?

A          He loved being a father.

Q         What did you say, he loved being a father?

A          Yes,  I saw the beauty of their relationship. Their loyalty to their father and his to them. Michael enlightened them and taught them. When we rehearsed, we had meals together. We had numerous lunches at Carolwood.

Q         Did Michael Jackson want to eat with his kids?

A          When we were rehearsing, we all ate together.

Q         You ate lunch with Prince, Paris and Blanket?

A          Sometimes.

Q         Did you see Prince interact with his father?

A          Yes.

Q         Tell us about their relationship. What were your impressions?

A          I thought it was awesome. I was very proud to see Michael as such a loving father. I was proud to see their relationship. It was great to see how they interacted. I mean, Prince wants to be a director. So Michael would have conversations with him about that process — point out things to him during rehearsals that he should remember.

Q         So you saw Mr. Jackson give guidance and mentor his children?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you know that Mr. Jackson wanted to get into making movies?

A          He was in movies for years.

Q         Did you know that he wanted AEG to help him get into making movies?

A          I heard about that, but I never knew the details.

Judge: Did you learn that he was going to get AEG to help him make movies?

Payne: I don’t know that.

Q         Who did you hear about Mr. Jackson going to make movies  with AEG help?

A          From Mr. Jackson.

Q         Describe Paris Jackson’s relationship with her father. What did you observe?

A          Paris was very protective. She was a very attentive young lady who was very, very smart, very astute. She was so impressive. She had full knowledge of the day-to-day operations, from the time of lunch and what it was going to be, she was hands on — far beyond her age. She was aware of not only her father but also her brothers needs. She had a lot of responsibility, which I think she welcomed. She enjoyed it. She was the female of the house. She really loved her father. At that time, she was coming to find out his global successes and presence. So she would wear her Michael Jackson t-shirt, Michael Jackson bag and Michael Jackson headband.

Q         Describe Paris‘s irresponsibleness.

A          She was always really the most vocal of the three children and was very concerned about many of the details of the house, was the temperature correct, what do you want to eat. She just handled a lot for her young age. She was very nurturing. She would bless the food when we ate together. I can’t say enough about her.

Q         Was Paris a Daddy’s girl?

A          Yes, I believe so.

Q         Was she always one step away from her dad?

A          Yes.

Q         Would Blanket be there at rehearsal also?

A          Yes.

Q         Would Mr. Jackson talk to him during rehearsal?

A          Yes. He was quiet — but always right there with his dad.

Q         Mr. Jackson would guide and mentor his son, Blanket?

A          Yes.  The relationship between Michael as a father with his children is one that every child hopes for. I would as a person — I would be very grateful to have a father like that.

Q         Would you agree they have suffered tremendous loss?

A          Of course.

Q         You videotaped footage of Michael Jackson being with his children?

A          Yes.

Q         Where is that footage now?

A          I don’t know.

Q         Didn’t you say that you locked it in a vault?

A          No, I said I had it. Not locked. Just in my personal collection.

Q         Is it true that you always carried a video camera with you and that you shot videos of the This Is It rehearsal?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you have a video recording you made of This Is It?

A          Yes.

Q         That video recording — that video footage of This Is It rehearsal –  that was confiscated from you when Mr. Jackson died, correct?

A          Yes, the footage.

Q         AEG took away all the footage from you?  And you never got it back?

A          Yes, they used it.

Q         AEG took away all the footage from you before they made the movie?

A          Yes.

Q         And you don’t know what footage AEG removed?

AEG:  Objection.

Q         Let’s move onto an exhibit.

AEG:  Objection. Witness is not copied cc’d in this email.

Panish:  My exhibit evidence would not have been accepted into evidence had he not been called in to testify.

Judge:  Sustained.

Q         Sir, did you ever learn that Randy Phillips was told by Paul Gongaware to make sure – to take out clips where Michael looked too skinny, and other parts

AEG:  Objection.

Q         Did you ever learn who the top dog is at AEG?

A          Yes, he was higher up.

Q         Who was that then?

A          Philip Anschutz.

Q         And directly below Philip Anschutz is Randy Phillips?

A          Yes.

Q         Who did Randy Phillips report to?

A          To my understanding, Mr. Anschutz.

Q         Before you began editing, did you know that Randy Phillips told Paul Gongaware to take out a scene of Michael Jackson because he looked way too thin and skeletal?

A          No, I was not.

Q         Did you know AEG removed footage before you began editing This Is It?

A          No. I want to speak — I want to say

Panish: I’m done with that question.

Q         Did Michael Jackson look skeletal?

A          No.

Q         Do you know if Paul Gongaware removed footage of Michael Jackson looking skeletal?

A          No.

Q         Let’s go back to Mr. Jackson’s family.  You testified that you and Mr. Jackson frequently talked about your mothers, is that right?

A          Yes.

Q         Are you close to your mom?

A          Yes.

Q         Tell us about your observations and impressions of Michael Jackson’s relationship with his mother.

A          It’s not a secret. He loved her very much. They were close.

Q         How do you know that?

A          It’s common knowledge that Michael loved his mother.  We would speak at rehearsals — about the sacrifices our parents made which bought us here.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson a humanitarian?

A          Yes.

Q         What did he do as a humanitarian?

A          He still holds  the Guinness World Record for donating the most money to charity of any entertainer. Many of his songs had to do with bringing awareness, about the planet.  The needs of the planet and people around the world. He was shining light on problems and what he could do to help. To get involved to effect positive change.

Q         Michael Jackson was always a dedicated humanitarian?

A          It was what I saw. I felt it was his passion.

Q         Why did Michael Jackson want to do this tour?

A          So he could unite people around the world.

Q         Did you testify truthfully under oath in your deposition?

A          Yes.

Q         Didn’t you testify that Mr. Jackson was giving this tour to enhance and enrich people around the world?

A          Yes.

Q         This was his platform to remind people of our responsibility, correct?

A          Yes. Yes,  among other things. He never changed. That was always the basis for it. I’m sure over the years there were other things he wanted to pay attention to. Heal the world, championing of the planet.

Q         Are you familiar with We Are The World?

A          Yes.

Q         What is it?

A          It’s a composition by Lionel Richie and Michael Jackson.

Q         For what?

A          To bring aid around the world.

Q         Who worked and sang on the song?

A          Michael, Lionel, Quincy Jones, Diana Ross, Stevie Wonder, Bruce Springsteen, Ray Charles, Willie Nelson, Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick, Kenny Rogers, Paul Simon, Cindy Lauper, Kim Carnes, Huey Lewis, Steve Perry, Bob Dylan –

Q         Many artists?

A          Yes.

Q         The song raised money for starving people in Africa, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Also, one reason Mr. Jackson was doing the This Is It tour was because he wanted his kids to experience the tour, is that right?

A          Yes.

Q         He was excited to have his children be a part of the experience, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Do you know Karen Faye?

A          Yes.

Q         Karen Faye created designs for the performances?

A          She was makeup. She created makeup designs.

Q         Did you testify that Ms. Faye created designs for performances?

A          I’m confused.

Q         When you did your deposition you stated that Karen Faye created designs for other performers, but particularly Mr. Jackson.

A          Yes. Just clearly they are makeup designs, not clothes.

Q         Was Ms. Faye always there with Michael Jackson for This Is It?

A          Yes.

Q         Was she there at the preparations if Mr. Jackson wasn’t there?

A          Yes.

Q         They spent lots personal time?

A          Yes.

Q         They had a long time personal relationship?

A          Yes, many years.

Q         She could say things you could not because of her closeness?

A          Yes.

Q         In June, Ms. Faye made you aware she had became concerned about how Mr. Jackson looked, correct?

A          Yes. She was concerned. She came to me in an aggressive way. I told her: Anything you want to voice, to say — talk to Kenny.

Q         Who did Kenny Ortega report to?

A          He reported to Michael. MJ had a partnership with AEG, he worked with AEG.

Q         You say partnership. Who was partners with AEG?

A          Kenny was the producer. I don’t know the working relationship.

Q         Yesterday you said partnership. Were you all partners? Did you share profits?

A          No.

Q         You were paid by AEG?

A          Yes.

Q         Paid by AEG?

A          Yes.

Q         You were contracted by AEG?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Gongaware was the producer of show?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Phillips was the producer of show?

A          Yes.

Q         You talked about the higher ups in production. Is that Mr. Orgeta, Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips?

A          Yes.

Q         Anyone else?

A          I like to consider myself, but wasn’t in production.

Q         Who could fire you, AEG?

A          I’m sure.

Q         Is that what your contract states?

A          Yes.

Q         Karen Faye had concerns about Mr. Jackson’s well-being and you didn’t do anything?

A          I said to her — because we were in the middle of rehearsal — I told her: If you feel its serious than converse with Kenny.

Q         Did you know if she went to Mr. Ortega?

A          I don’t know.

Q         You have seen emails of the discussion?

A          Yes.

Q         But you said you didn‘t know if she went to Mr. Ortega?

A          I said I didn’t know.

Q         Did she go to Mr. Ortega?

A          Yes.

Q         And you didn’t do anything but tell Ms. Faye to speak to Kenny Ortega?

A          She wanted to call a doctor. There was a doctor already there. I’m a creative person. I was working on the show which I had been hired to focus on.

Q         On June 22^nd,  Ms. Faye was concerned abut Mr. Jackson, correct?

A          I don’t know the date.

Q         She could look at Mr. Jackson and see signs you couldn‘t?

A          Yes.

Q         She was frustrated?

A          Yes.

Q         She told you?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you feel everything was being done for Mr. Jackson?

A          No, I wanted him to have a physical therapist, nutritionist, massage — to have his family around. This was a different scenario for Michael. This was the first time MJ was working with an entity like AEG.

Q         Mr. Jackson had previously always had full control over production?

A          Yes, with his companies. I’ve always been hired by MJJ Productions before.

Q         This was first time you were hired by other company in relation to a Michael Jackson production?

A          Yes.

Q         Who put up the money for this production?

A          AEG.

Q         You were paid by AEG, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         After Michael Jackson died, Karen Faye sent you a text message?

A          I don’t know.

Q         You don’t recall that Ms. Faye sent you a text message and asked you why you were lying to the media about Michael after he died?

A          I never received it.

Q         Are you denying it?

A          I’m saying there were many text messages. For Karen Faye to say I lied — if I got it, I erased it.

Q         Do you deny receiving a text message from Ms. Faye after Michael Jackson died? asking you: Why are you lying to the media about Michael‘s condition?

A          I don’t know if I received it. If you show it to me, I will be happy to address it.

Q         Do you have a memory of responding to Ms. Faye’s text message?

A          I certainly don’t remember. I don’t know.

Q         You deny responding to Ms. Faye’s text message?

A          I don’t know if it happened.

Q         Do you know who Charles Claypal is?

A          Yes.

Q         Did Mr. Claypal have a different opinion then you of Mr. Jackson’s physical condition?

A          I don’t know.

(Break)

Q         Sir, This Is It was released after Michael Jackson died, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Was this is first time you were the associate producer on a production?

A          Yes, I was on the documentary.

Q         This Is It was released after Michael Jackson died. Were you still upset about Michael dying?

A          Of course, I’m still upset now.

Q         Did you go the to big This Is It premiere?

A          Yes.

(Panish exhibits a photo of Payne at the This Is It premiere)

Q         Is this you?

A          Yes.

Q         Where was this taken?

A          This is at the Staple Arena.

Q         And this is you on the red carpet?

A          This is going in to watch the film.

Q         And you were one of the celebrities?

A          I worked on the film.

(Panish exhibit’s a photograph of Payne walking the red carpet at This Is It premiere)

Q         Is that the same location, the same evening with you striking a dance pose?

A          You know, it’s a natural way to take a picture.

Q         You were happy at the premiere?

A          Yes.

(Panish exhibit’s a photograph of Payne and Ortega at the DVD launch in Australia)

Q         Is that you going around the world to promote the film?

A          To be clear, MJ’s dancers and I did some promotions for the DVD.

Q         Were you paid for doing those promotions?

A          I think so.  Kenny joined us on the last leg.

(Panish exhibit’s a photograph of  Dileo, Phillips and Ortega at This Is It premiere)

Q         Whose is this?

A          Frank Dileo, Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega  at the L.A. Premiere.

Q         They look pretty happy about this?

A          Yes. You know we where just happy to put the worst behind us, it had been very difficult, things were finally coming together

Q         On the far left is Kenny Ortega, and the man with the big cigar is Frank Dileo, correct?

A          Yes, rest his soul.

Q         Were you present when Michael Bush told Frank Dileo about Michael Jackson having lost weight?

A          Yes.

Q         You heard them talking about Mr. Jackson not eating and being thin?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Mr. Dileo paid by AEG?

A          I don’t know.

Q         Did you hear Mr. Dileo say to get Michael Jackson a bucket of chicken?

A          (laughing)  No.

Q         You think that is funny?

A          Well it is now, the way you ask it.

Q         Ms. Sankey was associate producer on This Is It?

A          Yes for the concert tour.

Q         What were you the associate producer for on This Is It?

A          The documentary film.

Q         How does that rank?

A          I don’t know. To me was just a title. The same objective. All equal.

Q         So you guys were equal, you and Ms. Sankey?

A          In our creative endeavors MJ created a family. Even though the same title was given to me and her, Ms. Sankey had different responsibility.

Q         She was close to Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

(Panish exhibits emails)

Q         Let’s look at the beginning of this email.

A          Okay.

Q         This is dated June 14^th, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You were sent a copy of this email?

A          I don’t see my name, if you say so.

Q         You were just talking to defense counsel, Ms. Stebbins about emails forwarded to you. Did you get this email?

A          Yes.

Q         You just said you didn’t receive it.

A          I’m just replying. I’m on the chain.

Q         What does it say here?

A          Travis.

Q         So all those emails were forwarded to you?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you read them?

A          Yes.

Q         This one is dated June 13^th. Who is Brother Michael?

A          MJ’s personal valet, handler, right hand man.

Q         It reads: Brother Michael called. MJ taking sick day, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         It says: Dr. Murray’s orders, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         As part of your responsibility as associate producer for This Is It, you have told those above you this information, right?

A          I don’t see who — I may very well have if I got information that Michael was not coming, I would have alerted the others.

Q         Okay. Let’s go to Dr. Murray didn’t want Mr. Jackson to come to rehearsals. Mr. Gongaware wanted Dr. Murray to stay on top of Michael Jackson’s health, correct?

A          That’s what the email says.

Q         Are you saying that is not true?

A          Everyone wanted to stay on top of MJ’s health.

Q         You mentioned you wanted vitamins, a physical therapist, a nutritionist. Kai Chase is not a nutritionist, is she?

A          No, she’s a chef.

Q         Who was the nutritionist for Mr. Jackson?

A          There wasn’t one.

Q         Who was the physical therapist for Mr. Jackson?

A          There wasn’t one. I wanted one I know who’s worked with Olympians.

Q         Would you agree that dancers are much like athletes?

A          Yes.

Q         Would you agree dancers and athletes are much the same in their need for stamina, physical endurance — in their physically grueling routines?

A          Yes.

Q         As a dancer you push your body to all extremes, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You can have injuries as a dancer?

A          Yes.

Q         Injuries that need treatment?

A          Yes.

Q         Can taking drugs affect performance?

A          Yes. That’s safe to say.

(Panish exhibits email)

Q         In this email dated June 14^th from Mr. Ortega to Mr. Gongaware it says: Please don’t underestimate the need to stay on top of this. Do you have an understanding of what Mr. Ortega was referring to?

A          Yes, I understand he wants a top nutritionist and physical therapist for Michael.

Q         And it says here: Please have them stay on top of his health. Do you remember this?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Orgeta was concerned about Mr. Jackson’s physical condition?

A          Yes.

(Panish exhibits email)

Q         Then we have this email from the same email chain from Mr. Gongaware: We want to remind him that it’s AEG not MJ who’s paying his salary. Do you remember this?

A          Yes.

Q         Do you think that was heavy handed?

AEG:  Objection.  Judge: Rephrase.

Q         From the same email: Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting with the doctor. Do you remember this?

A          Yes.

Q         Again, Mr. Gongaware was stating: We want to remind him, Dr. Murray,  that it’s AEG not MJ who’s paying his salary, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Just like you are paid by AEG, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         The email states: We want to remind him what is expected of him, correct?

A          Yes.

AEG:  Objection.

Q         Of course I mean, the email reads: We want him to understand what is expected of him? Do you have an understanding of what this is referring to?

A          I was not privy to the details of what was expected of Dr. Murray. So I don’t have an understanding what was expected of Dr. Murray except of being a physician.

Q         Do you have an understanding what AEG was to gain from their investment?

A          No, that’s not to my understanding as an artist.

Q         Who was in charge of the show?

A          AEG was the producer and promoter. Certainly MJ was the star and had to be happy.

Q         You have to make sure the star is okay. If not, you lost money, correct?

A          Perhaps. I’m not privy to those details.

Q         There was lots going on. If AEG doesn’t have Mr. Jackson best interests, they are not protecting their investment, correct?

AEG: Objection.

Q         You previously stated that Mr. Phillips was coming every day to watch out for his investment, didn’t you?

A          I may have. I’m not privy to that.

Q         Sir, did you testify under oath that Mr. Phillips was coming every day to the This Is It rehearsals to watch out for the investment of their company?

A          I don’t understand why investment is a bad thing. You make — I don’t have dog in this race, I’m not masking anything. When you do this, its pretty aggressive. I feel like you are cornering me sometimes.

Q         June 19^th.  You told us all about the events of 19^th, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You sure about this?

A          Yes.

Q         Let’s take a look at that. Let’s put that up.  We are talking about the truth, right?

A          Yes.

(Panish exhibits This Is It rehearsal schedule)

Q         So yesterday you told us about this exhibit. You told us yesterday — you were talking about choreographing Jam and They Don’t Care About Us with Mr. Jackson, right?

A          Yes.

Q         You talked about how there was an introduction Drill you worked on together with Mr. Jackson, right?

A          Yes.

Q         You worked on singing together, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Then you were shown this schedule, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You were asked if you worked a 3-hour block that day, is that correct.

A          Yes.

Q         You said you worked together for 3 hours, and then took a break for 10 minutes, is that correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You said you and Mr. Jackson were up on your feet, going through dance steps, figuring everything out, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Sir, Michael Jackson was not there that day.

A          I said based on this schedule,  this is what I was responding to. From 12 to 3 we were expected to rehearse. (Side note: please read answers from yesterday by Payne, he did NOT say “based on this schedule”)

Q         You said you were there at rehearsal on June 19^th. I am sure the schedule said it.

A          If MJ wasn’t there — I don’t have any reason not to believe you.

Q         You told the jury Mr. Jackson was there, based on this schedule.

A          If there is a discrepancy that’s fine. If it was on the schedule — if you are saying he wasn’t there, I’ll take your word for it, but –

Q         But you can’t tell us if you were there every day?

A          I was there every day. I said Michael wasn’t there every day.

Q         You testified that you worked together with Mr. Jackson on that day. You didn’t say based on this schedule, did you?

A          That’s fine, I was talking from the schedule. If you say MJ was not there — sometimes he didn’t show up.

Q         Do you know Dr. Klein?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you get injection of versed from Dr. Klein?

Sidebar

(Break)

After the lunch break and prior to continued cross examination, there was a huge argument between AEG and Jackson attorneys. AEG attempting to suppress evidence, citing medical records.  Jackson attorney, Brian Panish wants to show the date of Michael Jackson’s visit to Arnold Klein — to dispute testimony by Travis Payne. Judge Palalzuelos is allowing the evidence to be shown.

Once the questioning began Payne repeatedly asked AEG’s lawyer, Stebbins/Putnam for assistance……..They could do nothing to help but objected, all were overruled

Continued cross examination by Panish.

Q         During the break, AEG counsel showed you your prior testimony, is that correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Why did they show your prior testimony?

A          To help me.

Q         Why, can’t you remember what you said?

A          No, my testimony varied.

Q         So you talked to AEG’s lawyer and they showed you?

A.         Perhaps counsel can explain. I don’t know where you are going with this.

Q.        So AEG counsel showed you your deposition so that you can talk about it when you came back here on the stand?

A          Yes.

Q         Because you can’t remember?

A          It’s not that. Time has elapsed. I want to be clear about my testimony here.

Q         How many pages of your previous testimony did they show you?

A          Two.

Q         Was one page about Mr. Gongaware and the emails?

A          Sure. I believe it had to do with that.

Q         What was the other page of your previous testimony just shown to you about?

A          It had to do with rehearsal on the 19^th.

Q         So that’s the rehearsal where Mr. Jackson was sent home and didn’t rehearse, right?

A          I don’t know the time. I wanted to be clear about what we were — we were going back and forth, I wanted counsel to be clear so I know what –

Q         I want to ask you a question.

A          Okay.

Q         You testified yesterday that you went to Michael Jackson’s Carolwood house on May 19^th for a rehearsal. You testified that you and Mr. Jackson were practicing steps at his house, correct?

A          Yes, we were in his basement dance studio.

Q         On May 19^th?

A          Yes.

Q         So yesterday under oath you testified — let’s go to that specific exhibit, okay?

A          Okay.

Q         Yesterday, defense counsel only showed you three schedules, right?

A          Yes.

Q         Can you tell us if any of these occurred?

A          No.

Q         You can’t tell us if you had rehearsals with Mr. Jackson?

A          I was there.

Panish:  Your Honor, please direct the witness to answer the question.

Judge asked witness to reply to questions put to him

Q         Yesterday in your testimony, you didn’t tell us you don’t remember. You said: This is what we did May 19^th — we had a 10 minute break, etc. Correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Sir, Mr. Jackson was not with you on May 19^th, was he?

A          No.

Q         Because Mr. Jackson was at a doctor’s appointment having a procedure done, correct?

A          If you’re saying Mr Jackson wasn’t there then I’m not disputing that. I don’t know where he was.

Q         Yesterday you told us you were there rehearsing with Mr. Jackson on May 19^th, and today you tell us you were not. How is that?

A          I was telling you based on the schedule I read. I don’t know his personal schedule.

Q         But you didn’t say: “I dont know where Mr Jackson was”. You told us the specific dance moves and performance numbers you rehearsed, you told us you took 10 minute breaks. right?

A          Yes.

Q         And that wasn’t true. And now you say: I don’t have a problem. I made a mistake. You didn’t have a problem yesterday saying that you were with Mr. Jackson rehearsing in his house with him on May 19^th, did you?

A          No.

Panish:  Let’s take a look at the schedule of Mr. Jackson’s medical record for that day.

(Panish exhibits the medical record from Klein’s office)

Q         The record shows Mr. Jackson was having a cyst removed during that time on May 19^th. Do you see that?

A          Sure.

Q         So he wasn’t with you from 12pm to 3pm on May 19^th. Does that refresh your memory?

A          Yes.

Q         Now. You previously testified that Mr. Jackson was there at rehearsal with you on June 22^nd. Was he?

A          I don’t know……………………………………

Q         Didn’t you tell us from that witness stand this morning that Mr. Jackson rehearsed with you on June 22^nd?

A          Yes. ……………………………

AEG:  Objection. Overruled

Q         Sir, just answer the question. Mr. Jackson had another medical appointment on June 22^nd. Do you see that?

A          Okay. I don’t know his personal schedule. I just work with him.

Q         You were supposed to testify to the truth, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         So you‘re telling us your recollection is now the truth?

A          We’re human. Sometimes we make mistakes.

Q         But you testified just this morning that you were with Mr. Jackson on those dates rehearsing for the This Is It Tour, isn‘t that the truth?

A          But now I‘m saying I was wrong. I’m not disputing. I’m just saying based on the schedule you showed me, we rehearsed from 12pm to 3pm.

Putnam:  I didn’t show you a schedule stating that.

Payne:  Well, the other counsel showed me.

Q         So AEG counsel showed you a schedule with your hand notations on it — and you agreed with it?

A          Yes.

Q         It wasn’t true, was it?

A          Apparently at this particular time I made a mistake.

Q         You were only shown 3 schedules, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         And you didn’t tell us the truth on any of them, did you?

A          If I was mistaken on Mr Jackson’s whereabouts on those 3 — if I made a mistake as to his whereabouts, I can totally fess up to that.

Q         Where are all your other schedules?

A          I turned in everything before trial.

Q         You don’t have any other schedules?

A          I didn’t have every single one. All I had was tuned in at the beginning of the trial.

Q         At the beginning of this trial?

A          Yes, in my deposition.

Q         You testified that you rehearsed 5 times a week with Mr. Jackson at his home. That’s not true is it?

A          We were scheduled to rehearse.

Q         You were asked how often you DID rehearse, weren‘t you?

A          That was our schedule.

Q         No. You were not asked if that was your schedule. You were asked how many times you rehearsed with Mr. Jackson for the This Is It Tour, weren‘t you?

A          Our schedule was 5 times a week.

Panish:  Your Honor, please ask the witness to answer the question. 

AEG:  Objection. 

Judge:  Move on.

Q         You’ve testified that Randy Phillips was almost always at rehearsals, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Would it be true to say the Mr. Jackson was not required to come to rehearsals until the entire company was ready?

A          I don’t think that’s completely accurate.

Q         That’s what I mean. It would not be completely accurate to say that Mr. Jackson was not required to come to rehearsals until the entire company was complete, right?

AEG:  Objection.

(Panish reads from Payne’s transcript testimony from yesterday)

Panish: MJ wasn’t due to come to rehearsal until the entire troop ——–

AEG:  Objection.

Q         Is it truthful to say Mr. Jackson did not have to come to rehearsal?

A          No, he had to come.

Q         Is it true to say Mr. Jackson wasn’t to come to rehearsal until everyone was ready for him?

A          No, he still had to come. There were other things he had to do.

Q         Is it correct to say Mr. Jackson did not have to come to rehearsals?

A          No, he needed to come to rehearsal. It was part of the job.

Q         When you were asked by AEG’s attorney whether you choreographed the Dangerous Tour, you said you choreographed parts of the tour, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         When you choreograph something do you get credit?

A          Yes, unless it was already credited. On the Dangerous tour, I added parts.

Q         Let me ask you a question. You told us you choreographed the Dangerous tour, didn‘t you?

A          I added, I did not completely choreograph it.

Q         Who got credit?

A.         I don’t know

Q         You read the credit.

A.         Ermmm

Q.        Would Mr Ortega know who got the credits

A.         Of course

Q         Others got credit, not you, correct?

A          Yes, what’s that supposed to mean?

Q         Did Lavelle Smith used to be your choreography partner?

A          Yes.

Q.        Now sir –

Payne:  Can I clarify that I joined the Dangerous tour when it was largely in progress. The program was printed. When I joined, I did They Don‘t Care About Us and some other parts. I contributed to the choreography.

Q         Let’s see what Mr. Ortega said regarding Dangerous tour credit. You rely on Mr. Ortega?

A          Yes but he, like me, is human and can make mistakes.

(Panish shows exhibit of Dangerous tour program credit. Choreography by Michael Jackson)

Payne says he was given credit

Q         Have you ever got where you were credited?

A          Yes, after the tour program was updated.

Q         Where is the program that credits you for choreography?

A          I never took credit. I was one of a choreography partnership. It’s common knowledge that I was one of the contributors.

Q         Where is the manual you refer to where you got credit?

A          It would have been in our travel itinerary.

Q         Where was it printed?

A          In Michael’s History Tour travel itinerary.

Q         Do you have a copy of that?

A          Yes.

Q         Will you bring it to court?

A          Yes.

Q         Let’s go back to Mr. Phillips, okay?

A          Yes.

Q         You said he was there at rehearsals for This Is It every day?

A          Yes.

Q         And that was at the Forum?

A          Correct.

Q         You testified you believed that Mr. Phillips was a top dog in AEG, is that right?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Phillips watched over the investment?

A          Yes.

Q         And Mr. Phillips was there every day?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Gongaware was a top dog. He watched over everything — expenses, investment?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Gongaware was aware of everything going on?

A          I don’t know what he was aware of.

Q         Now May 14^th.  Let’s look at Mr. Ortega’s email.

A          Okay.

(Panish exhibits email from Ortega to Gongaware, part of which reads: He has been slow at grabbing hold of the work)

Q         Now. Was it your understanding that Mr. Jackson was having a hard time picking up the material?

A          Where are you reading?

Q         You were with Michael Jackson every day, correct?

A          Yes, I was there.

Q         You have knowledge of Mr. Jackson, correct?

A          Sure.

Q         Was it your understanding he was having a hard time picking up material?

A          No.

Q         Any material?

A          Yes.

Q         Kenny Ortega tells Paul  Gongaware that Mr. Jackson is having a hard job grasping the material, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You don’t disagree?

A          I disagree partly.

Q         So you are in a better position than Mr. Ortega to know that?

A          That’s not what I said. …………………………………..

Objection Overruled

Panish   Your honor, please instruct the witness to wait for the question.

Judge: Don’t speak over the question.

Q         Was Mr. Ortega in a better position then Travis Payne to assess whether Mr. Jackson was having a hard job grasping the material?

A          That’s fair, it’s his opinion.

Panish:  You haven’t the answered the question.

Q         Are you more knowledgeable than Mr. Ortega?

A          That’s not what I’m saying.

Q         Who has more experience?

A          Mr. Ortega.

Q         Who has more knowledge?

A          What are you talking about? In some regards I had more knowledge of choreography than Mr. Ortega.

Q         Were you concerned about Mr. Jackson’s sudden weight change?

A          Yes.

Q         Were you concerned the sudden weight change was affecting him physically?

A          Yes.

Q         That was brought to your attention by Mr. Jackson‘s wardrobe person?

A          I knew myself.

Q         So you knew within the month of June that Mr. Jackson was showing sudden weight change?

A          Prior to June, I notice Mr. Jackson was thinner than I recognized him

Q         You are not answering my question.

A          I’m telling you, When I met Michael in April he was thinner then he had beeninthe past

Q         I’m asking about sudden weight change.

A          No, he was always thin.

Q         Are you testifying you never saw sudden weight change during preparations for the This Is It tour?

A          No.

Q         Did you see sudden weight change when preparing for This Is It tour?

Payne:  YOUR Honor, it was during — when you say sudden — he was already thin.

Q         Is it true sir, that you are stating in your testimony here that you never observed sudden weight change in Mr. Jackson during the This Is It tour preparations?

A          No, that is true.

Q         You began working with AEG without a contract, correct?

A          Unsigned.

Q         You had an agreement with AEG that you would work without a signed contract?

A          I don’t know how to answer that.

Q         I will read your deposition.

AEG:  Objection.

Panish:  I didn’t get to ask the question before they objected.

AEG:  He can’t read the deposition out loud,

Judge: then ask him.

Q         Sir, all your negotiations for employment on This Is It were done with producer AEGLive? It was the first time in 30 years you were hired by an entity that was not MJJ Productions, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         It was AEG who paid you?

A          Yes.

Q         You began work without a signed contract?

A          Yes.

Q         So you retroactively worked for AEG before you signed a contract?

A          Yes.

Q         You knew you were going to get a fair rate before signing?

A          Yes.

Q         So you worked, and then your contract was back dated to April 1, 2009, correct?

A          I believe so.

Q         Let‘s take a look at your contract with AEG, okay?

A          Okay.

(Panish exhibits Payne/AEG contract)

Q         Let me have you identify that. So you expected to be paid for work even though you initially had no contract?

A          Yes.

Q         Is this your contract?

A          Yes.

Q         And for when is it dated?

A          April 1^st.

Q         So your contract was approved — it was passed, but you signed it way after, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You got paid?

A          Yes, after negotiations.

Q         And the contract states that only AEG can terminate you — stated in this paragraph in your contract. Would you read that now?

(Panish shows Payne the contract)

A          Okay.

Q         Does that refresh your recollection, then?

A          Yes. It says AEG can cancel the contract.

Q         You submitted an invoice to be paid?

A          My agent would have.

Q         You said that you saw Dr. Murray in late May at the Carolwood house?

A          Yes.

Q         You testified that you were going upstairs as Dr. Murray was coming downstairs, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You said Mr. Jackson told you: This is Dr. Murray, correct?

A          Correct.

Q         The 2^nd time you saw Dr. Murray was the night before Mr. Jackson died, correct?

A          I think so. In the hallway, passing each other.

Q         You saw Dr. Murray the night before Mr. Jackson died in the hallway at the Staples Center.  You had concerns, correct?

A          I wanted Michael to go home and go to sleep.

Q         Isn’t it true you told Mr. Ortega that Dr. Murray didn’t look like a professional doctor?

A          Yes.

Q         Conrad Murray didn’t look like a doctor to you, correct?

A          Yes, he didn’t look official.

Q         You didn’t feel he was an official doctor who should be working for Michael Jackson, is that correct?

A          At the time..

Q         You did not know Dr. Murray‘s credentials?

A          Not when he was working with Michael. I learned what they were after Michael passed.

Q         Who told you after Michael Jackson died

A          I learned about Conrad Murray’s credentials during his trial? I was following the trial

Q.        Did you learn Dr Murray was a cardiologist?

A.         Yes, during the first trial

Q         When you first heard reports that Mr. Jackson died of a heart attack, were you surprised or not surprised?

A          I didn’t know Michael to have had heart problems.

Q         You knew he had sleeping problems?

A          Yes.

Q         You knew Mr. Jackson was being treated by Dr. Murray for his sleeping problems?

A          Yes.

Q         It was widely known knowledge that Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         It was widely known during Mr. Jackson’s tours — through the touring process, that Mr. Jackson has trouble sleeping?

A          Yes.

Q         To your knowledge, Did Mr. Ortega know about Mr. Jackson’s sleeping problems?

A          Yes.

Q         Based on your knowledge, would you believe that anyone from AEG could not know about Mr. Jackson’s sleeping problems?

AEG:  Objection.

Q         You know Mr. Gongaware?

A          Yes.

Q         Did You have an understanding that Mr. Gongaware knew about Mr. Jackson’s sleeping problems?

AEG:  Objection.

Q         Sir, as far as you know, it was well known within the business that Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems, correct?

A          I don’t know how well known it was. I think many people knew. Michael told me.

Q         And you knew that before the This Is It Tour preparations?

A          Yes.

Q         And to your knowledge, did Mr. Gongaware know Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems?

AEG:  Objection.

A          NO!

Q         Lets play your depostions, you said that you gave your deposition under oath, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You signed your deposition under the penalty of perjury, correct?

A          Yes.

(Panish plays videotape of Payne’s deposition)

Q         Sir, do you know that if you change your testimony it could hurt your credibility?

A          Yes.

Q         You knew once you made your deposition that you could review it and change any possible discrepancies in it before coming here to testify today? You knew you had a chance to make any changes, correct?

A          Well I just got it a few days ago. That’s why I wanted to read it, Im trying to make every effort I can to be truthful as I can.

Q         You were deposed in January 2013. You said you watched it yourself, correct?

A          Yes, I watched Sunday.

Q         And in that deposition there was a stipulation that the deposition be delivered to your lawyer for you to review. They drafted a updated copy, then sent it to you again, correct?

A          Yes.

Q.        You knew Mr Jackson had sleep problems

A.         Yes

Q         Mr. Ortega knew Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems for many years, correct?

A          I think so.

Q         Dr. Murray was to help Mr. Jackson with that problem?

A          Yes.

Q         An email we have previously seen was sent to you stating that Dr. Murray would not permit Mr. Jackson to come to rehearsal, is that right?

A          Yes.

Q         You are clear about that?

A          Yes.

Q         Why did you tell us yesterday that there were lots of rehearsals at Staples Center, you don’t know how many Mr. Jackson came to, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         That’s not true is it?

A          When I saw the schedule yesterday.

Q         Defense counsel showed you lots of rehearsal schedules from Staples Center –

AEG: Objection.

(Panish exhibits rehearsal schedules)

Q         Here sir. Let’s see how many total rehearsals there were at the Staples Center before Mr. Jackson died – 1, 2, 3. Only 3. Correct?

A          Yes.

Q         He didn’t come on June 22^nd?

A          I don’t think so.

Q         So Mr. Jackson attended 2 rehearsals at the Staples Center, isn’t that true?

A          Yes.

Q         Now, it was your understanding that Dr. Murray was responsible for Mr. Jackson’s nourishment?

A          Yes.

Q         You remember Mr. Ortega’s email writing about nourishment and appropriate care for Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         And it was your understanding that Dr. Murray was to handle that?

A          Yes.

Q         You mentioned something about a staff doctor?

A          Yes.

Q         And you excepted Dr. Murray to be a good doctor?

A          Yes.

Q         A fit doctor to attend for Mr. Jackson?

A          Absolutely.

Q         You told us you received 5000 submissions for dancers for the This Is It casting, is that correct?

A          I believe 5000. 2300 showed up and we selected from those for casting the tour.

Q         When they show up, you do an interview?

A          No, I show them the choreography, then they do it. Then we narrow it down from there.

Q         So a submission was like a resume?

A          Yes. They submit a resume, photos of themselves and videos.

Q         You received 6000 resume submissions to cast dancers for This Is It?

A          No 5000.

Q         Do you know how many doctors resumes AEG received? How many doctors AEG interviewed to work with Mr. Jackson on This Is It?

A          No.

Q         How many doctors they tried out?

A          No.

Q         One of your concerns about Mr. Jackson was that he was fatigued and sore.

A          Yes.

Q         Yesterday when defense counsel was leading you, you said that you never saw signs of Mr. Jackson using prescription medication, through all this time. Through the Dangerous Tour, History Tour, through This Is It. You never saw any signs that you can remember, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Someone showing the signs and symptoms of being lethargic could be indicative of a problem with prescription medication. Didn’t you say that you saw Mr. Jackson appearing lethargic?

A          Yes.

Q         You saw Mr. Jackson appear groggy at This Is It rehearsals?

A          Yes.

Q         Would you agree insomnia could be a sign — a symptom of a problem with prescription medication?

A          Yes. I didn’t know that before, but since watching the Murray criminal trial, I’ve learned they are side effects.

Q         And you knew Mr. Jackson had problems with insomnia, dizziness, passing out. Which could be a sign of prescript medication. Is that correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You had seen Mr. Jackson pass out and fall to the ground?

A          Yes.

Q         Missing work and performances could be symptoms of someone with a prescription medication problem?

A          Could be.

Q         You saw Mr. Jackson missing rehearsals for This Is It?

A          Yes.

Q         And if someone is incoherent, this could be a symptom of someone with a prescription medication problem?

A          Yes.

Q         And you saw Mr. Jackson incoherent, correct?

A          Not incoherent. Not being fully himself. You have to understand, hindsight is 20/20. In the moment I had no knowledge of what was revealed after Mr. Jackson passed. During that time I had no reason to think why he fainted.

Q         You were asked about signs and symptoms, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         I’m asking you about signs and symptoms –

A          I’m agreeing with you.

Judge: Please slow down it  very difficult for the reporter to get all this down

Q         You saw, and Mr. Ortega told you he saw Michael Jackson incoherent –

AEG:  Objection. Mr Ortegas… state of mind…… Sustained

Q         You saw Mr. Jackson tired and fatigued, correct?

A          Yes that’s true.

Q         And that could be a sign of a problem with prescription medication?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you ever learn that Mr. Jackson was drugged and despondent at the This Is It London press conference?

A          No.

Q         Did you hear that Mr. Phillips yelled at Mr. Jackson so loud that walls shook?

A          No.

Q         Now. Sir,  are you aware that Mr. Jackson was losing weight at rehearsals?

A          Yes.

Q         And you had never seen him lose weight like that before?

A          True.

Q         And in your experience he had never lost weight like this before, correct?

A          Correct.

Q         You recommended a costume designer, Zaldy Goco be brought in?

A          Yes.

Q         You had worked with this designer before?

A          No, I was fan of his. I wanted to work with him.

Q         Zaldy Goco is someone you respect?

A          Yes.

Q         You thought he could add something to the This Is It show?

A          Yes.

Q         You had already worked with another wardrobe and costume designer, Michael Bush?

A          Yes.

Q.        You both worked together on the History tour

A.         Yes

Q         So both designers worked together on This Is It?

A          No it wasn‘t necessary to do that.

Q         I want to show you — Zaldy Goco had unique design

A          We thought he would be good for Mr. Jackson and we wanted to do a special shoot.

Q         I want to show you a photograph of  a Zaldy Goco design.

(Panish shows photograph of the costume)

Q         Is this a Zaldy Goco design made for Mr. Jackson for This Is It?

A          Yes,  Michael loved it.

(Panish now shows a photograph of Michael in the fitting room, being fitted with the costume’s shoulder pieces)

Q         Okay. You see this in when Mr. Jackson was getting fitted for the costume’s shoulder pieces, correct?

A          Yes, this is the first time Michael saw them.

Q         Did you see Mr. Jackson in his t-shirt during this fitting?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you see his collar bone?

A          Yes.

Q         He’s pretty skinny?

A          Yes.

Q         Was this photo taken on the 19^th?

A          I believe so.

Q         He is not in great physical shape, is he?

A          No, not in great physical shape and he was sore.

Q         He was hurting?

A          Yes.

Q         You were talking about Mr. Jackson being groggy and lethargic. You told Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson looked assisted, is that correct?

A          Yes.

Q         By assisted you meant that he looked under the influence of drugs?

A          Sure.

Q         And you told Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson looked assisted to you, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         It was your role to report those types of things, is that correct?

A          Yes.

Q         It wasn’t your responsibility to take care of Mr. Jackson?

A          I expected the physician to take care of that.

Q         You thought that Mr. Jackson was groggy?

A          Yes.

Q         You told Mr. Ortega?

A          Yes.

Q         Because you expected him to get to the bottom of this, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         And when you told Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson seemed assisted, you believed that Mr. Ortega would figure out what was going on?

A          Yes.

Q         I that because Mr. Ortega told you that he was going to get to the bottom of it?

A          Yes.

Q         He told you that he was going sort it out, is that right?

A          To the best of his ability.

Q         Why did you expect Mr. Ortega to deal with the situation?

A          If it was abuse, we wanted to deal with it, figure it out.

Q         Why?

A          We cared about Michael.

Q         Also there were goals to be met, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         The goal was to go to the London 02 Arena. And those goals were not going to be met, there were concerns, correct?

A          Some were, yes.

Q         Particularly, Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips were concerned?

AEG:  Objection.????   

Judge:  Were you copied in those emails?

A          Yes.

Panish:  I appreciate you interrupting you honor. 

Judge: Glad you think so.

(Laughter in courtroom)

Q         We were talking about people being concerned about meeting the goal to get to the London 02 Arena for the This Is It Tour. Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips were concerned about reaching those goals, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         There were meetings going on to go see Mr. Jackson and talk to him about meeting the goals?

A          Yes.

Q         You also felt on a couple of occasions that Mr. Jackson looked assisted after an appointment with Dr. Klein?

A          Yes.

Q         When you say assisted, does that mean under the influence?

A          I thought it was some kind of sedative — if they were doing a facial or some cosmetic procedure they would use a sedative.

Q         Do you know what Demerol is?

A          I found out after he died.

Q         Not before?

A          I heard him mention it in his song, Morphine.

Q         Morphine is not Demerol, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You have testified that Mr. Jackson, in your opinion, looked assisted during practice, is that so?

A          Yes.

Q         During late May, Mr. Ortega was concerned about Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Ortega was concerned about Mr Jackson missing rehearsals?

A          Yes.

Q         He was concerned about meeting the goal of to the O2 Arena shows?

A          Yes.

Q         And you said everybody wanted Mr. Jackson to do good?

A          Yes, including Mr Jackson.

Q         Everyone wanted Michael Jackson to succeed?

A          Absolutely.

Q         Everyone wanted the company to reach the goal?

A          No.

Q         Now. Mr. Jackson, from late-mid June to his death was having continued physical weakness, correct?

A          It was sporadic.

Q         There was a meeting called with Mr. Jackson because you all thought he need physical maintaining?

A          Yes.

Q         When you say maintained physically, you mean his body?

A          Yes.

Q         Like in that picture?

A          Yes. He was losing weight, he would say he was sore. He was working up his stamina. Lack of sleep and improper nourishment were beginning to show.

Q         What’s a teleprompter?

A          That’s a piece of equipment — you put words into it to read, like the president can use to read a speech.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson know the words to his songs?

A          I think he did. He knew most of them. But he wanted a teleprompter for safety.

Q         You are saying that Mr. Jackson wanted a teleprompter so he could know his own songs?

A          No, that’s not true. Michael wanted it because he didn’t want to make any mistakes — for extra security if he needed it in case he was stuck on a verse or line. Also we used it for the order of the songs, so he would know what’s next — to refresh his memory.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson ever use a teleprompter before, at any other time, on any of his previous tours?

A          No.

Q         And these were songs he had sung thousands of times before, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Would you say that was unusual?

A          Not unusual. He wanted it.

Q         It was not unusual for Michael Jackson –

A          He never had it –

Q         Let me finish….   Wasn’t it unusual for Mr. Jackson to need a teleprompter for his own songs which he had sung and performed thousands of times before and had never used a teleprompter?

A          I can I verify for instance, Michael had never used one for song lyrics, but for a speech he did at the end of Earth Song, he had a speech and he used a teleprompter for that, but not for his songs before.

Q         Do you agree that it was very unusual for Mr. Jackson to have a teleprompter with the lyrics of his own songs?

A          Yes.

Q         What is a body double?

A          Stunt man. Sometimes they are used in a production for detail shots. If the star is not needed.  For instance, in the History commercial, I was a body double for Michael. They would use my feet, then cut it in with Michael in full figure.

Q         Do you know Rob?

A          Which Rob?

Q         Do you know any Rob?

A          I know the one in the video. I believe he worked on simulations on the picture.

Q         Did Rob request a body double for Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Ortega wrote to you about getting a body double for Mr. Jackson for the This Is It video footage?

A          Yes.

Q         Who Is Chucky

A.         He is a dancer?

Q.        Was Chucky used as a body double for Michael Jackson

A          Yes,

Q         Who is Misha Gabriel?

A          Misha Gabriel was another body double for Michael, but he was shorter than Michael. But closer in color

Q         Closer in color to Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         And Chucky – Whose Casanova

A          He is a tribute artist. One of the Michael Jackson tribute artists.

Q         So he is a Michael Jackson impersonator?

A          Yes, he likes the term tribute artist.

Q         He dresses up to look like him?

A          Yes, many people don’t like the phrase impersonators, they prefer “Tribute Artist”

Q         And Rob requested a body double for the This Is It video footage?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Misha Gabriel videotaped as Mr. Jackson’s body double for the This Is It video shoot?

A          Yes.

Q         Was it that footage used in the This Is It film?

A          Yes.

Q         So some parts of This Is It showed a body double and not Mr. Jackson, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         In which location was this filmed?

A          It was probably done at Culver Studios. Misha was asked to jump through a glass plate for Smooth Criminal. It was going to be used on stage. You would see this video of the image jump through out of frame, then Michael would stand up do the live performance.

Q         Was this in Movie?

A          Yes.

Q         In June, Mr. Jackson was expected to be at these rehearsals, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You can’t tell us whether he was there or not, is that correct?

A          Yes, but he was there……..

Q         You said yesterday: I don’t know when he was there. Have you changed now?

A          No, most of the time he was there. It wasn’t a big deal. Thinking this far back — I’m trying to answer as best as I can.

Q         There were 18 rehearsals at the Forum, correct?

A          It looks like that, yes.

Q         You can check it out yourself. Is that what the schedules show?

(Panish shows Payne the rehearsal schedules for the Forum)

A          Yes.

Q         And you don’t know how many rehearsals Mr. Jackson came to?

A          No.

Q         Rehearsing means Mr. Jackson getting up onstage. You don’t know how many times you saw him up on the stage?

A          No.

Q         No big deal, right?

A          Correct.

Q         Who is Michael Bearden?

A          He was the band director.

Q         Mr. Bearden had concerns about Michael Jackson performing?

A          Yes.

(Panish exhibits email chain which Payne is involved in. He shows an email from Michael Bearden to Kenny Ortega which reads:

MJ is not in shape enough yet to sing this stuff live and dance at the same time. He can use the ballads to sing live and get his stamina back up. Once he’s healthy enough and has more strength, I have full confidence he can sing the majority of the show live. His voice sounds amazing right now, he needs to build it back up. I still need all big dance numbers to be in the system so we can concentrate on choreography.)

Q         Do you see that?

A          Yes, think so, yes.

Q         This is Michael Bearden writing — he’s actually writing Mr. Ortega to talk about meeting Dr. Murray , Mr. Dileo, Randy Phillips………….. are going to have at Mr. Jackson‘s house. The email is dated June 16^th. The email was copied to all those who were going Mr. Jackson‘s house,  correct?

A          Yes.

Q       In another part of the email chain Mr. Ortega writes: What concerns me, I have a list to discuss with MJ that Bearden gave me. Do you know what his concerns were?

AEG: Objection.

Q         Was the plan for Mr. Jackson to join band that night to rehearse?

A          Are you asking –  I’m not certain if this was a day of the week that he should have come to rehearsal.

Q         Do you know if he came?

A          I don’t know, no.

Q         This is where, in the email, Mr. Bearden is telling you 9 days before Mr. Jackson died that Mr. Jackson was not in shape enough to dance and sing at the same time. Did you agree with this?

A          I didn’t see it happen, so I can’t know. He was having private rehearsals with Michael Bearden. That would be his opinion.

Q         Are you able to dispute that Mr. Bearden is telling you the truth?

A          No.

Q         So Mr. Bearden is stating his concern and belief that Mr. Jackson was not in shape to dance and sing at the same time. He’s telling you, right?

A          Yes, I was copied.

Q         You don’t sing?

A          No.

Q         Not your area of expertise?

A          No.

Q         Then Mr. Bearden says: Once he’s healthy enough and has more strength, I have full confidence he can sing the majority of the show live. Correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Did he tell you when he thought Mr. Jackson could do the full show live?

A          Did who tell me?

Q         Mr. Bearden?

A          No.

Q         Mr. Bearden then says: I still need all big dance numbers to be in the system.

What does it mean — big dance numbers to be in the system?

A          It means prepared into the show.

Q         In other words if you can’t do show, you can have one or the other.

A          Yes.

Q         Are you disputing this?

A          No.

Q         Did you have an understanding that AEG were talking about pulling the plug on the This Is It show?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you understand that would cause significant stress on Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

AEG:  Objection.

Q         You discussed this with Mr. Ortega — about AEG pulling the plug on This Is It?

A          It wasn’t throughtout, but we knew we had to get it together or the plug will be pulled.

Q         June 19^th. Mr. Jackson was not doing good that day either, correct?

AEG:  Objection.

A          I’m not certain about June 19^th

Q         Let me ask you again. Isn’t it true Mr. Jackson was sent home without setting foot onstage?

A          I don’t recall. I’m not clear on the exact date. If you show me an email — I mean, I will agree but I’m not sure on the exact date.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson sent home without setting foot onstage?

A          I don’t know.

(Panish shows Payne his deposition. Judge says: Let him refresh first. Payne reads his deposition)

Payne: Okay, I’m done.

Q         Does that refresh your memory that Mr. Jackson was sent home?

A          It reminds me of my answer, which was that at that time, I believe so.

Q         Didn’t your deposition characterize Mr. Jackson as being exhausted? Did it??

A          I’m just saying. did it?

Q         I’ll come back to you again and show you page 133, line 6. Actually read the whole part.

A          Okay.

(Payne reading his deposition)

A          Yes.

Q         Does that refresh ——

A          Yes.

Panish: Your honor, please have witness let me finish the question.

Judge instructs witness

Q         Would you characterize that on June 19^th Mr. Jackson was exhausted?

A          Yes.

Q         And you would on June 19^th Mr. Jackson appeared paranoid?

A          Yes.

Q         Like someone using prescription medication?

A          Could be.

Q         You saw those symptoms in Mr. Jackson on June 19^th?

A          Yes.

Q         Mr. Ortega wrote to you that day — line 7, see bottom.

A          Hum hm.

(break)

During break, Judge stated that if the witness can’t remember something, they should be shown their deposition and given chance to read/remember. If witness says their prior testimony does not assist them, then we can proceed showing deposition to jury.

Q         Yes sir. So on June 19th Mr. Jackson did not rehearse at his home

A.         Yes

Q.        On June 20^th you all went to a meeting at Mr. Jackson’s Carolwood house, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         When you got there, he was cold?

A          Yes.

Q         Kenny massaged his hands and feet?

A          Yes.

Q         One night during the last week of rehearsals for This Is It, Mr. Jackson could not take the stage. He was not coherent, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         He didn’t have the energy level, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         Do you see this photo of Mr. Jackson rehearsing Thriller on June 24^th?

(Panish exhibits the photo)

A          Yes.

Q         Is that how Mr. Jackson looked at the end of the June 24^th rehearsal?

A          Yes, this is the spiritual moment, almost a prayer.

Q         Okay now sir, umm, you said in the last two days Mr. Jackson improved based on how he was doing before?

A          Yes.

Q         But not where he wanted to be?

A          Yes.

Q         Two times in rehearsals Mr. Jackson was wrapped in a blanket, correct?

A          I just know about one time.

Q         First time — June 10^th?

A          Yes.

Q         On June 23^rd and 24^th, did you know Mr. Phillips was at rehearsals?

A          I don’t know.

Q         On June 24^th, Mr. Jackson goes up the ramp?

A          Yes, on stage.

Q         The ramp lifts up?

A          Yes.

Q         That day you had to assist Mr. Jackson so he would not fall, is that correct?

A          I was there. He handled it. He’s done it before safely.

Q         You were there to protect him from falling, correct?

A          No.

Q         So before June 24^th, he hadn’t ridden on that ramp,

A.         correct? What — we were going to leave 8 days later.

Q         You were aware of Dr. Finkelstein on the Dangerous Tour?

A          Yes.

Q         He was there to help Mr Jackson to help him manage the pain?

A          I don’t know his responsibility at that time.

Q         Did you know Michael Jackson suffered pain and trauma from his Pepsi commercial scalp burn injury?

A          Yes.

Q         Now, you said that Mr. Ortega was of the mindset that Mr. Jackson was not ready physically, etc. for the tour, correct?

A          I think are you paraphrasing.

Q         Did you believe Kenny was of the mindset that Mr. Jackson was not ready physically?

A          If he wrote that.

Q         This was in June. Five days before he died, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         You could sense that something was up — something was wrong, but you just didn’t know what it was, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         But you knew Mr. Jackson was different?

A          Yes.

Q         You knew within 4 days of his death that he was not the Michael Jackson you knew, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         And he died 4 days later?

A          Yes, on the 25^th.

Q         You were told Mr. Jackson was sick. You were asked about all of he’s prescription medication problems on the Dangerous Tour?

A          Yes.

Q         Last few tour dates on the Dangerous Tour were in Chile and Peru?

A          I believe so. Then it stopped in Mexico.

Q         You remember the show being canceled?

A          Yes.

Q         You didn’t know why?

A          No.

Q         You thought Mr. Jackson was doing great on that tour?

A          I assumed the tour was cancelled because there may have been civil unrest in the country, or problems with bookings.

Q         Sir, what I was asking — Shows were canceled for whatever reason. You didn’t know why?

A          No.

Q         You thought Mr. Jackson was fine?

A          Yes.

Q         Then the shows got canceled?

A          Yes.

Q         Elizabeth Taylor took Mr. Jackson to rehab?

A          Correct.

Q         You saw no signs of prescription medication problems?

A          No.

Q         Just like This Is It?

A          Right, I didn’t see anything that alarmed me.

Q         Ah let’s see.. Sir would it be fair to say — somebody’s got a cell on. Someone has got their phone on.

(Panish continues)

Q         Let me try again. Couple more questions. I appreciate you being here.

A          Not a problem.

Q         Did you see that Michael Jackson was getting, you were under the impression Mr Jackson  was getting everything done in the last days of the This Is It rehearsals?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you feel the pressures with the show had  manifested themselves physically in Michael Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         So you sensed that something was wrong, you just didn’t know what it was?

A          Yes.

Re-direct examination by Jessica Stebbins.

Q         Mr. Payne, um that night Mr. Jackson appeared unwell is June 19^th?

Panish:  Objection. Leading the witness.

Q         June 19^th,  that night I believe you testified that Mr. Jackson was chilled?

A          Yes.

Q         Disoriented or whatever — ?

A          Thinking………..I believe so.

Q         Have you ever seen him in that condition before?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see him in that same condition again?

A          No. Not flu like disoriented, no.

Q         After that day can you recall he looked better?

A          Yes, the last 2 days we completed the show.

Q         Did you have any doubts you couldn’t get Mr. Jackson to were you had to?

A          You know, I never doubted Michael. He was the architect. Part of my responsibility was to get him there.  (begin crying)

Q         And you did that? Do you think you got him there?

A          Absolutely!

Q         When you talk about pressure.

A          Yes.

Q         He was 50 years old.

A          Yes.

Q         Do you know whether he wanted excited to put together a great show?

A          He absolutely did, that’s why we were working.

Q         I want to ask you about times you saw him assisted?

A          Sure.

Q         Did that happen just the 2 or 3 times that you mentioned to Mr. Ortega?

A          Yes.

Q         One time he looked groggy?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you see muddiness?

A          No there was one time at the house, and the times I mentioned at Center Staging, that was my understanding that Michael had come from a dermatology appointment.

Q         My question yesterday where we showed you that schedule you saw,  was that a typical day for you?

A          Yes it was.

Q         Were there many days you worked and were there approximately 3 or 4 hours?

(Stebbins shows Payne defense exhibit schedule again)

A         Yes It was.

Q         Were there a number of days in May when you worked with Mr. Jackson choreographing the show?

A          Yes.

Q         How often did you actually see Mr. Jackson?

A          I can’t say.

Q         Was it most days?

Panish:  Objection. Foundation.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson there most days, at his house?

A          Yes.

Q         Most days?

A          Yes, a significant amount of days.

Q         And about the Dangerous Tour. Did you choreograph the Dangerous Tour?

A          Yes.

Q         Is that known?

A          Yes.

Q         Right after lunch, I showed you a couple of pages, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         I showed you another that was about Mr Gongaware emails?

A          Okay.

Q         This was forwarded by Mr. Ortega after Dr. Murray suggested to keep Mr. Jackson out of rehearsal?

A          Yes.

Q         They wanted to set up a meeting with the doctor?

A          Yes.

Stebbins: Your honor, can I approach the witness?

Panish: What pages?

Judge: She has to ask the question first

(Stebbins looks through the deposition.  the Gongaware email, talking about Michael’s missed rehearsals)

Q         Mr. Payne, I asked you if you recalled this. You told me you did recall this email

A          Right.

Q         Do you have a better sense of what you were saying?

Panish: Objection.

Sidebar

Q         I want to ask you if you recall that email?

A          Yes, I took it to mean that they would be having discussions because there had been some inconsistency at rehearsal, and there was a need to have a meeting about that.

Q         Did you ever attend the meeting with Dr, Murray?

A          No.

Q         What was your understanding of what he was there to do?

A          Who Dr. Murray? He was there to care for the patient, Mr Jacksons nutritional needs, to — um — get him ready for the show since he had not been on stage for decades.

Q         Did someone tell you that?

A          I just assumed.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson tell you?

A          No, I never asked about his affairs.

Q         You never spoke to Dr. Murray about Mr. Jackson’s medical condition?

A          No, no.

Q         You were asked earlier about a text message?

A          Okay.

Q         Do you recall receiving any of those textxmessages?

A          Absolutely not.

Q         Do you know Karen Faye?

A          Yes.

Q         Are you friends?

A          We are professionals, not friends.

Q         Did you have an understanding that she was with Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you see her?

A          I saw her once.

Q         So you spent time with Mr. Jackson when she didn’t?

A          True.

Q         Do you have an understanding that Ms. Faye may be divisive?

A          Oh yes, she had reputation.

Panish:  Objection.  Judge: Sustained.

Q         Did you get on with her?

A          We were professional with each other, but………. not friends.

Q         You were concerned about Mr. Jackson after he was sent home?

A          Yes.

Q         You knew something was wrong?

A          Yes.

Q         Following that he came back and did two good nights rehearsals, correct?

A          I felt we were definitely on the upswing.

Q         You didn’t have concerns?

A          I still felt we had a way to go, but I knew Michael could do it. I was concerned about inconsistencies. That day when he was wrapped in the blanket, I thought: Oh, he has to get over the flu.

Q         Other than that, did you have concerns about Mr. Jackson –  other than being an older dancer?

Panish:  Objection.

Q         Other then that, around June or early May, what were your concerns about Mr. Jackson?

Panish:  Objection.

Q         Um. I was trying to say –

Q         You said that June 19^th  was unusual?

A          Yes.

Q         At any other time other than that rehearsal — what were your concerns?

A          I had concerns that production felt he wasn’t coming to evening rehearsals enough. I had concerns we needed to create a show that Michael would like doing. If it was too ambitious it wouldn’t be fun for him. If it was less, Michael Jackson fans would not like it. So it had to be balanced.

Q         I want to ask you briefly about the June 22^nd date.

A          Yes.

Q         Plaintiff’s attorney showed you three schedules?

A          Okay.

Q         This Is it show schedules.

A          Okay, okay.

Q         May 12^th?

A          Yes.

Q         May  19^th?

A          Yes.

Q         And June17^th?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you see one for June 22^nd?

A          I don’t think so.

Q         Can you view the bottom of that form.

A          Okay.

Q         This comment for June 22^nd.

A          Yes

Q         Is that a schedule?

A          No, a session notice. Day’s session. This appears to be notes that I sent to Brother Michael from the session I had with Michael that I wanted Brother Michael to printout and give to him.

Q         You saw a photograph of yourself at the premier?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson’s family at the premiere?

A          I saw Jermaine. We met and shook hands.

(Stebbins shows a photo of Jermaine Jackson and Payne from TII premiere)

Q         Is this you?

A          Yes.

Q         Were any other brothers there?

A          I believe so.

(Stebbins shows photo of Jermaine smiling with Ortega, Tito and Marlon Jackson)

Q         Do they look happy?

A          Yes, they look pleased.

Q         You were happy?

A          I was because we had been through so much.  (crying)  And it seemed like that rough period was behind us. With the film. I was proud we had at least pieced together what the show was to be for Michael Jackson fans. About what the show was going to be. Our intention was to represent what the show that was going to be. I was happy.

Re-cross examination by Brian Panish.

Q         This Is It premiere — Mrs. Jackson wasn’t there.

A          No.

Q         Michael Jackson’s children were not there.

A          No.

Q         They hadn’t gotten pass the rough period of losing their father…Mr. Jackson.

A          We all hadn’t.

Q         Were they smoking big cigars like Mr. Dileo?

A          No.

Q         You said you only saw Michael Jackson wrapped in a blanket once?

A          One, I can recall.

Q         The one were Mr. Gongaware was present at the Staples Center, where Mr. Jackson was wrapped in a blanket and sitting next to a heater, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         There was another time at the Forum where Mr. Jackson was wrapped in a blanket and sitting next to a heater, correct?

A          Not to my knowledge.

Panish:  Okay. Let me give you your deposition to read. Why don’t you go to page 64, line 1 through 18.

(Panish gets the page for him)

Panish: Read that sir

Payne:  I read that, sir. This is not what you asked me.

Q         Sir, does that refresh your memory? Mr. Jackson wrapped in a blanket?

A          That is incorrect. I saw cold, shivering once at his house, and then another time  at Staple Center.

Panish:  I want to play witness’s deposition.

Judge:  I want to see everything you want to play.

Sidebar

Q         You were never present at the meeting at Carolwood?

A          Correct.

Q         When you were shown that email from Mr. Gongaware saying to tell Dr. Murray what was expected of him, you didn’t know?

A          No.

Q         What was your understanding when Mr. Gongaware said: what is expected of him? Did you expect Dr. Murray to get Mr. Jackson to rehearsals?

A          Yes, my understanding was that Dr. Murray will get whatever nourishment to get Michael to rehearsals.

Q         Because they were upset — because Brother Michael had called you, saying that Mr. Jackson was sick?

A          Correct.

Q         Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips were not happy?

A          No.

Q         Because they were paying Dr Murrayto get Mr. Jackson to rehearsals?

Stebbins:  Objection.

Panish:  Well, he was copied in the emails.

A          Could you restate the question?

Q         Was it your understanding that AEG were paying Dr. Murray to get Mr. Jackson to rehearsals?

A          He may have said it.

Judge:  Was that your understanding?

A          I took to understand that Michael needed physical therapist, nutritionist, what ever he could do to get Michael to go to rehearsals so we could finish the show.

Q         One last thing, now sir. You said maybe Mr. Jackson had the flu?

A          Yes, it seemed flu like.

Q         Did he have sniffling?

A          Not that I’m aware of.

Q         Did he have a sore throat?

A          I don’t know if he had a sore throat

Q         He never said?

A          No.

Q         He just said he was tired?

A          Yes.

Q         Do you know what withdrawal from prescription medication symptoms look like?

A          No, but I know what withdrawal from flu looks like, that’s what I thought.

Q         But Mr. Ortega didn’t tell you?

A          No.

Q         Did anyone else tell you they thought Mr. Jackson had the flu that day?

A          No.

(Witness released)

Travis Payne

(Associate Director/Choreographer, This Is It)

Defense Witness.

By WendyLovesMJ

Direct examination by Jessica Stebbins.

Court could not initially find Travis Payne today, when he was called to testify. Therefore, Deputy coroner, Rogers was taken out of turn.  Mr. Payne eventually appeared and took the stand.

Q         Tell me what you do as choreographer?

A          I create dance steps and then teach them to the artist.

Q         You are also a producer?

A          Yes. I create concepts that are used in a production.  See the idea from conception to completion. Working on tours, music videos, shows, television.

Q         What have you done in videos?

A          I worked on making the recently released Michael Jackson dance video game.  (Michael Jackson Experience)   I worked on it so the viewers can play the game and dance like Michael Jackson.

Q         Did you start off as a choreographer or a dancer?

A          I started as a dancer.  My first job was with Mick Jagger. Also have worked with Paula Abdul, Diana Ross, Brandy, Marilyn Manson.

Q         Are you still a dancer?

A          Not a lot of time. I have termed it movement dancing.

Q         And through the course of your career you have worked with Michael Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         When was the first time you worked with Mr. Jackson?

A          On the short film Remember The Time. I believe that was in 1992.

Q         What did you do in that?

A          I was a dancer.

 (Stebbins plays a clip from Remember The Time video)

Q         Did you work closely with Michael Jackson?

A          Well I mean, that as the first time I’d worked with him. I was a dancer. Didn’t have a relationship at that time. We did the shoot. I danced and went home.

Q         And did you have an occasion to work with Mr. Jackson again?

A          Yes.

Q         How did you work with Mr. Jackson after that?

A          Then after Remember The Time, I worked as a dancer and choreographer on the Dangerous Tour.

Q         How did you become the choreographer on the Dangerous Tour?

A          I was asked to join The tour.  And once on tour I established more of a rapport with Michael. It was always his position to inspire and enlighten those around him, so after a show he said he had to work on choreography. I worked on some of the steps and so I became a choreographer.

Q         What dance performances did you choreograph for the Dangerous Tour?

A          I choreographed for the songs Dangerous, Jam and various other songs throughout the tour. To be clear, many of Mr. Jackson’s pieces existed before I joined him, so I incorporated those steps as well as adding my own steps.

Q         We had testimony earlier today from Stacy Walker. She said Michael Jackson would perform the original choreography, but make small changes to it. Is that what you’re talking about?

A          Yes.

Q         So you joined the Dangerous Tour. How long were you working on that tour?

A          I joined the tour when it was already started, and then it ended in Mexico

.

Q         At any point during the Dangerous Tour did you come to understand that Mr. Jackson was misusing prescription medication?

A          No. Not misusing. But it was general knowledge since the Pepsi commercial accident that pain was an ongoing issue for him.

Q         Did you see any signs that Michael Jackson was on drugs — disorientated, stoned, high?

A          No.

Q         When the Dangerous Tour ended, Mr. Jackson publicly announced that he had a dependence on pain killers. Did you hear about this?

A          Yes.

Q         Prior to Mr. Jackson publicly announcing his dependency on drugs, did you have knowledge of that fact?

A          No.

Q         Did you enjoy working on the Dangerous Tour?

A          Yes. It was always good to work with Michael.

Q         How would you describe or characterize Mr. Jackson?

A         Given the fact that since I was a young child, like many others, it was my dream to work with Michael Jackson. So I was ecstatic on the Dangerous Tour. I was working with my idol, being respected by him. It was a blessing. To be clear — the relationship was productive, that was the basis of our relationship.

Q         After the Dangerous Tour, when was the next time you worked with Mr. Jackson?

A          Chronologically, I’m thinking it would have been History. No wait. The first time other than Dangerous Tour was the 1993 American Music Awards. Then Ghost in1995. After that the History Tour. And during that time we also did other televised shows and promotions for past and present album packages.

Q         So you worked with him many times since 1993?

A          Yes.

Q         Did you do anything different for the American Music Awards?

A          It was definitely different. It was television production as opposed to live stage concert production.

Q         Did you work with Michael Jackson on the production of his short film, Ghost?

A          Yes.

Q         Stacy Walker worked on that also, correct?

A          Yes.

Q         We heard testimony that there were different legs on Mr. Jackson’s tours. On the History Tour, did you work on all of the legs of that tour?

A          No I didn’t.

Q         Which did you work on legs of the tour did you work on?

A          I worked on two out of for. The beginning parts, not the ends.

Q         I’d like to take y back to the Dangerous Tour. I’m going to show you video, okay?

(Stebbins plays a video clip from the Dangerous Tour)

Q         Is this performance from the Dangerous Tour?

A          Yes.

Q         Does it accurately depict Mr. Jackson on that tour?

A          Yes.

Q         Again, you also worked on the History Tour with Michael Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         Were you involved in preparing that tour?

A          Yes.

Q         And did that involve — let me back up. Were you a choreographer or a dancer on the History Tour?

A          Both.

Q         How did you go about preparing for the History Tour?

A          There were a number of mechanical things that we had to make sure worked in tandem. I worked with the dancers. I worked with ideas for costumes. And at that point,  whatever else was need that had to do with the creative or action on stage. Whatever I could get involved with, I would.

Q         Do you recall how much time Mr. Jackson spent working with the dancers on this show? Did he spend a lot of time rehearsing with the dancers?

A          No, not extensively. But it’s safe to say Michael would get caught up to speed. He was very good at giving people their space. And then he would join in.

Q         On the This Is It Tour, you were working privately with Mr. Jackson with rehearsing, is that right?

A          Yes.

Q         Had you worked privately with him on the History Tour rehearsals?

A          No.

Q         And how would you describe his performance on the History Tour?

A          GREAT.

Q         Did you know of Michael Jackson taking any prescription medication on the History Tour?

A          No.

Q         I want to show you this performance footage. I’d like you to tell me if it is from the History Tour, okay? Thanks.

(Stebbins plays They Don’t Care About Us clip)

Q         Now were you on this leg of the History Tour?

A          No I wasn’t. I joined the tour at a later date.

Q         Had you been on stage for this performance, you would have been standing behind Mr. Jackson on the stage, correct?

A          Yes. This is the History Tour. And these are shows that I helped to create. But was not present on this part of the show.

Q         Did you also work with Mr. Jackson on rehearsals for a special that was to be televised? When was that?

A          I don’t know. It had been scheduled to take place at the Beacon Theatre in NYC. But the show didn’t happen. (HBO Special: One Night Only)

Q         What type of show was this going to be?

A          It was going to be a one time performance with Michael and his dancers. It was going to have been shown live on cable television. I was one of dancers.

Q         And the show never happened, correct?

A          No it didn’t.

Q         What occurred to make the show not happen?

Boyle: Objection. Foundation. Judge: Overruled.

A          I don’t know exactly. I know there was a physical emergency with Michael.  And I was told that  the show would not be happening.

Q         Did you see Mr. Jackson appear to be in ill health?

A          No.

Q         Did you see drug use with Mr. Jackson?

A          No.

Q         What information were you ever informed of as to why the performance was not going to occur?

A          I know we were rehearsing and Michael had an incident. He fainted. We were told to leave the theatre. His physician saw to him. And we were told the show would not happen.

Q         Did Mr. Jackson have a physician with him on this show?

A          I know physicians and staff attended to Michael on shows. The only one I dealt with personally was dermatologist Dr. Klein and his nurse Debbie Rowe.

Q         Mr. Jackson had dermatologist?

A          Yes.

Q         Debbie Rowe worked for Dr. Klein?

A          Yes, they were the only ones I met. There were others doctors there, too. Most of time there was always a personal care person for Michael.

Q         Did you ever see any signs of Michael Jackson having problems with drugs?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see any signs of Michael Jackson being on prescription medication?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see any signs of Michael Jackson being having problems with alcohol?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see any signs of Michael Jackson using drugs?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see any signs of Michael Jackson take any medications?

A          No.

Q         Did you ever see any signs of Michael Jackson drink alcohol?

A          No. Not that I can recall.

Q         You saw no signs of addiction in Mr. Jackson in all the times you worked with him prior to 2009?

A         No. We did the BET Awards, we would perform together on many occasions. We did the Dangerous Tour, there were many varied appearances.

(15 minute break)

Q         You were saying you worked with Michael Jackson on many shows and performances, correct?

A          Yes. For the BET Awards, Michael did You Are Not Alone.

Q         Would you say you worked closely with him?

A          Yes.

Q         In the past, did you work every day with Mr. Jackson on a project?

A          Every day we were scheduled to work on.

Q         Can you give me a number?

A          No.

Q         When was last time you worked with Mr. Jackson before This Is It?

A          That would have been the History Tour.

Q         And that tour ended in 1998?

A          Yes. 1998.

Q         How did happen you came to work on This Is It?

A          I’d been working with Kenny. He is a mentor to me, just like Michael was. Michael reached out to Kenny Ortega, who I was currently working with in Las Vegas. For Wynn Hotel Casino. We were having lunch and Mr. Ortega got a call from Mr. Jackson, wanting to meet with him.

Q         Do you remember when that was?

A          The first meeting I think was prior to — I believe the first physical meeting was right after his press conference on London.

Q         Did you talk with Mr. Jackson on phone?

A          No.

Q         So the first time you met with him was at the press conference in London?

A          Yes.

Q         What was that meeting about?

A          It was at Michael’s Carolwood home. It was very exciting. We were getting back to work. Mr. Jackson expressed his complete excitement and was talking about what we had to do to prepare. It was brain storm. How about if we tried this, how about if we tried that.

Q         Did he explain why he wanted you?

A          Yes. It was time. This is it. He wanted to share these experiences with his children. He was excited. He missed it. He missed the direct contact with his fans. He wanted to get out their. He was concerned about the condition of the planet. He wanted to talk about taking care of the planet and each other.

Q         You meet with Mr. Jackson in March, shortly after the London press conference –

Panish:  Objection. Misstates the testimony.  Judge: Sustained.

Q         Did you know where the press conference was?

A          It’s common knowledge. It was after that.

Q         What month was it that you met with Mr. Jackson?

A          Let me think — it was April.

Q         When you saw Mr. Jackson at that meeting, how did he look?

A          He looked fine to me health wise. He looked thinner than in the past, but nothing alarming.

Q         Did you notice in Mr. Jackson any intoxication, prescription drug abuse?

A          No.

Panish:  Objection. No foundation.

Q         Over the course of your history in the entertainment business, have you noticed people drunk or on alcohol?

A          Yes.

Q         Can you tell the appearance of intoxication?

A          Yes.

Q         Um. And anyone you have observed on drugs –

Panish:  Objection. No foundation. I object on drugs, prescription medication qualifications.  Judge: Overruled.

Q         I’m just asking, did you know Mr. Jackson to be disoriented, shaky, not well? Did you observe any abnormal behavior?

A          At the meeting?

Q         Yes.

A          No.

Q         What did you think your role would be on the This Is It Tour?

A          I came to find out that I would not be a dancer. I would be the associate director and choreographer.

Q         Was that the first time you did associate directing?

A          No. The first time with Michael.

Q         So you had experience in the directorial side?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson also involved in the direction of the tour?

A          Yes, he and Kenny decided.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson also involved in the choreography?

A          Yes, he and Kenny decided.

Q         Let’s close up the timeline. Your first meeting with Michael Jackson was in April

(Stebbins begins to show an exhibit)

Panish:  Objection. No foundation.

Stebbins:  I will lay foundation.

Panish:  Objection.  Exhibit is an email. Witness is not in it — it’s not CC’d to him.

Judge:  Overruled.

Stebbins:  You can see the entire email.

Payne reads the email.

Q         I want to ask you whether Mr. Jackson met you in March or April? It appears to be late March.

A          Yes.

Q         After you met with Mr. Jackson, did you continue to work with him on the tour preparations?

A          Yes.

Q         Was this tour different from previous tours?

A          Yes. This time it was a partnership, not a promotion. AEG would be a partner in This Is It, not a sponsor.

Q         What is the difference between being a partner as opposed to being a sponsor?

A          Sponsors make investments and the show happens. That’s it. You don’t see reps daily. For This Is It — it was a partnership. Because AEG have facilities all over the world, it was a partnership. Michael told my: This is good. AEG have all these facilities.  He was excited to work with AEG.

Q         What did you do on This Is It?

A          I not only worked with the crew, I also worked with Michael to refresh his memory on what dances existed. Then maybe change and better some of them.  I worked on all of these things. And on the order of the songs in the tour.

Q         Who were you working with?

A          Michael, Kenny, the band director, editor — and my associate, Stacy Walker. Just like today we have assistant choreographer, Tony.

Q         In terms of decisions on the show — whose idea was it? Who made the decisions?

A          Everything started with Michael, always. As his support team, we would add to that. We would contribute ideas.

Q         Who had the final say on the content of the show?

A          Michael.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson involved in the production?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson involved in auditioning the dancers?

A          Yes.

Q         What was his role?

A          After I found out I was not going to be a dancer in This Is It, I said: Let’s find the best dancers in the world and put them together. After that process happened, Michael came at the end of the days, to see the process. Once he got the sense of them, he hired them. Kenny Ortega, me and Stacy Walker auditioned some 5,000 dancers. We got it down to the best of the best. Then Michael chose them.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson involved in selecting the musicians?

A          Well, he was involved in selecting the band leader. Jonathan Moffett was there. Also Dorian. He had been a vocalist on previous tours. He was the vocal director, that way there were known people in departments mixed with new people.

Q         So the band director would have new people under him?

A          Yes.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson involved in this process?

A          Yes.

(Stebbins shows email exhibit from Payne to Michael Bearden)

Payne:  Could we — can read the whole thing through, okay.

Judge gives him her copy.

Payne:  Oh. Okay, yes.

Q         What is this email about?

A          One of the iconic symbols Michael had already used was a torch. It was symbolic. He wanted it in This Is It, but he wanted the perfect creator for it. I believe that was an effort to give another artist a great opportunity. This torch in particular was of Italian Baroque design. He was concerned where it was. And he wanted two of them in case one broke. It was a detail he was concerned about.

Q         Okay. Turn your attention to an email from Mr. Ortega to you, referring to Zolge. Who was Zolge?

A          A singer.

Q         In the email, Mr. Ortega is saying something about Billie Jean. What is that referring to?

A          This time Billie Jean was going to illuminate. We went through the process or securing that technology. The costume would light up.

Q         Was Mr. Jackson involved in that?

A          Yes.

Q         At the bottom of the email, it says our partner is specific about the — Who’s the partner?

A          Michael Jackson.

Q         Michael Jackson was involved?

A          Not only involved, also approving and signing rights. Patrick came up with lighting that he designed. And then Michael would look at it and make improvements, adjustments if he liked.

(Stebbins shows memo)

Q         Is this a document you created?

A          Yes.

Q         Do you remember this specific meeting? Was it on March 29^th?

A          This would have been after that meeting, to update the team.

Q         What is this document?

A          It’s just a memo, shared with the creative individuals. Relaying ideals or goals for the show.

Q         Would you have made these memos during a meeting?

A          Well I would have made these after.

Q         Would you do typing close to that time?

A          Yes.

Q         Who attended the creative meetings?

A          It depends on what was being discussed.

Q         Would Mr. Jackson always be there?

A          Sometimes he would call the meeting. Let me strike that. There would be meetings in preparation for Michael.

Q         Was Mr. Ortega at all of the meetings?

A          I would say if it had to do with conceptual or creative — he would be there.

Q         Did you attend?

A          Yes.

Q         How often was Michael Jackson there?

A          I don’t know.

Q         More than half?

A          Yes, more than half.

Q         What did you discuss in the meetings?

A          Everything. Logistics, length of show, merchandise to be purchased. The general feeling of what the show should be, particularly about the mechanics of the stage work. How the outside of the O2 Arena would be decorated.

Q         What were the time periods of rehearsals?

A          From March to when he died.

Q         How often did you speak to Mr. Jackson?

A          Almost every day.

Q         Would you just talk about the show or other things?

A          It was mostly about the shows, or his children. We liked to talk about our mothers a lot.

Q         Did you create the show and go away and then Mr. Jackson comes in?

A          No, that’s what I expected would happen. But Michael told me — he made clear to me that he expected me at every show, taking notes. He wanted to know if something was not perfect. He wanted me to be his eyes. I’ve don’t this before. I was told I was expected to stay the whole time.

Q         Do you know who was setting the rehearsal schedule?

A          I would assume the higher up in production, with Michael’s approval.

Q         At the beginning of the This Is It tour rehearsals, you were at Center Staging?

A          Yes. I don’t know the exact dates we were at Center Staging, but on any of the documents you will see the schedule.

(Stebbins shows rehearsal calendar. Payne says he has never seen this one.)

Q         Does this refresh you memory?

A          Do you have June? Can I see June?

Q         Okay. We can go back to May, I believe Center Staging was May. How often did you see Mr. Jackson?

A          Well, customarily we would see each other every day. I would see him every day except when he didn’t come.

Q         Did you rehearse at Mr. Jackson’s home?

A          These were scheduled 5 days a week.

Q         And did you go 5 days a week?

A          Yes.

Q         How often did you see him?

A          It varied. I would go for private rehearsal at Carolwood. Michael would not turn up until Tuesday.

Q         How often did you rehearse with Mr. Jackson?

A          Very often.

Q         So you saw him frequently?

A          Yes.

Q         Almost daily?

A          Yes.

Q         In this time that you were working with Michael Jackson — you were meeting, dancing, meeting, dancing, planning, correct?

A          Yes.

(Stebbins shows exhibit. Payne read it.)

Q         What is this document?

A          It just looks like another schedule for May 12^th.

Q         What does it all refer to?

A          It’s the location — Michael’s house. Wardrobe. Kenny after that. Center Staging for 1 hour. Rehearsal before lunch. After lunch — a 3D video meeting with the directors of the show and Michael.  3:30 — discussion of the show rundown, or rundown of previous days events.  4:30 — session with Michael’s vocal trainer.

Q         Would this be a typical day during the time at Center Staging?

A          Yes there was always people to meet, discussions to have, and if specific people had to be at the meeting, this schedule would be send out to them.

Q         These were sent out all the time?

A          Not all the time. Just when crucial.

Q         Did you lunch with Michael?

A          Sometimes.

Q         Did he eat well?

A          It varied. His appetite depended on the day.

Q         You would get in front of mirror to rehearse. Did you work more hours then this?

A          Yes.

Q         What other hours did you work? What was your schedule?

A          Well from 2pm to 4-5pm I would work doing the private sessions at Carolwood. Then resume with the company at Staples until 6pm.

Q         These would have been shorter dance rehearsals with Mr. Jackson because of the busy schedule?

A          Yes. I would go to his house, then go to company rehearsals.

Q         Was there increasingly less time rehearsing?

A          Yes. As we got closer to the schedule we did less private rehearsing.

Q         When you were dancing with Michael Jackson at his Carolwood house, how did he seem?

A          His dancing seemed fine to me, we worked on things that had been created decades before. So it took time to re-imagine them. To make sure they were age appropriate.

Q         What do you mean?

A          When you’re 30 you can do more then when you’re 50.

Q         Was that case with Mr. Jackson?

A          Yes.

Q         Was he age appropriate to you?

A          Yes.

Q         I’d like to show you another exhibit, rehearsal schedule. The top part says Michael, Travis — Jam, They Don’t Care About Us and Drill.

A          Yes.

Q         You helped choreograph and design Jam On the Dangerous Tour, is that correct?

A          Yes.

Q         What was Drill?

A          That was a new piece for This Is It. A military piece. It was the prelude They Don’t Care About Us.

Q         Something that had not been done before, correct?

A          Correct

Q         Did you work with Mr. Jackson on it?

A          Yes.

Q         Tell me about that?

A          Michael wanted to execute a movement whilst he was not singing. Something that had precision. Michael came back with something from Mind Is Magic. Then we put them together. That was the last thing we worked on. He had a great love for military precision.

Q         These personal rehearsals with Mr. Jackson at Carol wood — these were 3 hour work days?

A          Yes.

Q         Continuous?

A          No.  We would a take 10 minute break. Then resume.

Stebbins:  One more exhibit, any objections.

Panish:  Go ahead.

(Stebbins exhibits another schedule)

Q         Did you created this?

A          No ,I didn’t create it.

Q         Did someone else give it to you, then?

A          Yes.

Q         Can you read it?

A          Danielle work out, Alex.

Q         Who is Danielle?

A          She was one of our performers. Alex was her understudy. Then there is a photoshoot. Bush. Toasters — that would mean pieces of floor that pops a person out of the ground. Crane — Mr. Jackson would ride over the audience. Lunch. Vocal session at Michael’s house. Then Michael comes to the Forum. Full company on stage.

Q         You were at rehearsals with Mr. Jackson from 2pm to 5pm at his house?

A          Yes.

Q         And you worked how often with Mr. Jackson at his house?

A          Almost every day. Less as we got into the process. Whether there were problems with  Michael or not, the production needed him to be onsite at rehearsals with the cast. Because it was time for everyone to be onsite together. That was main reason. Likewise, production wanted to make sure Michael was coming. Sometimes we would have our private sessions. But production insisted we work less at the house, as we were needed at rehearsals. He seemed very tired, we all were.

Q         During the private rehearsal sessions that Mr. Jackson worked with you, he was actively engaged?

A          Yes.

Q         Why did he miss rehearsals?

A          I don’t know. He was tied up sometimes.

Q         Did he have good days and bad days?

A          Yes.

Q         Was there a pattern?

A          No. No pattern.

Q         Regarding Mr. Jackson missing rehearsals. You said there was a time when production wanted Michael Jackson to attend rehearsals. Were they worried about his ability to perform or was –

A          I don’t know exactly.

Panish:  Objection.   Judge:  Stricken.

Q         You don’t know anything about it?

Judge:  He doesn’t know.

Q         Did you have any understanding there were concerns about Mr. Jackson not attending rehearsals because there were inconsistencies at rehearsals?

A          Production were concerned we would not have enough time to work with him.

Q         Did you think Michael Jackson would pull off the This Is It Tour?

A          I did.

Q         Did you think Mr. Jackson thought he would pull off the This Is It Tour?

A          Of course.

Q         Okay. Can I talk to you a moment about Mr. Jackson’s vocals?

A          Okay.

Q         I there anything you know — do you know what Michael Jackson’s plans were about going fully live?

A          Yes, I know because Michael told me he wanted to sing all of the songs live.

Q         Had he done this in any tour before?

A          He did not do them all live before.

Q         So if he didn’t have to move as much, he would sing all of the songs live?

A          Yes. Unless he had a vocal issue, he would sing everything live.

Q         And in previous tours when Mr. Jackson did heavy dancing, and running around the stage — he would have a particle vocal track.

A          Yes.

Q         What are partial vocals?

A          Like the first two lines, then not the other. Then come back in, into complete track.

Q         And if he was short of breath he would be able to sing less.

A          It would be up to him and his technician.

Q         On This Is It, Mr. Jackson wanted to sing live?

A          He wanted to sing live. He had sung live before, but not a complete show. But this was his goal. By June 25^th he hadn’t reached his goal of singing all songs live.

(Court adjourned for the day.  Continued direct examination of Payne tomorrow)

Deputy Medical Examiner Dr. Christopher Rogers

Typed by ToMJRespectIsDue

Cross examination by Kathryn Cahen

Propofol was main factor in death, contributed by others. Besides this case has had one other case of propofol overdose of a person who was in the medical profession.

* The doctor is shown on the stand Michael’s autopsy report*

Q. Is the case number shown here, the same number that has been allocated to Mr. Jackson’s case?

A. Yes

A. And are you the one that did the autopsy on Mr. Jackson

A. Yes

Q. Is this official  report that I’ve shown you, the report from the Las Angeles county coroner’s office, which was supervised by you

A. Yes this is the one created during the course of our investigation

Q. Is this your signature sir on the record, dated August 19^th 2009?

A. Yes that’s correct

Q. Is it true that the examination took place between June 25 and August 19th of 2009?

A. It was continuous work, a very delicate job and we wanted to make sure that we had everything we needed and all information was accurate and to persevere Mr. Jackson’s dignity

Q. During this medical examination, did you have a toxicology screen done on Mr. Jackson

A. Yes there was a toxicology screen done and due to the nature of Mr. Jackson’s death, it was an important part of the process

Q. During the medical examination, did the coroner’s office, use various physicians to gather its findings that created the final autopsy report

A. Yes we had specialists in their field, which assisted us in determining the cause of death, each specialists had a different focus and ran various test

Q. See name under there *Koskoff points to an area on the autopsy report* what does that say and who does that signature belong to

A. That’s the signature of the chief medical examiner coroner and his name is Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran

Q. Is Dr. Sathyavagiswaran your supervisor and the one that oversees the examination of the LA county coroner’s office?

A. Yes that is correct

Q. Does the chief medical examiner normally sign off on autopsies of this nature?

A. No actually he doesn’t

Q. If chief medical examiner doesn’t typically sign off on the autopsies that your perform, why did he do so in this case

A. Dr. Sathyavagiswaran did so because he performed the examination with me and oversaw the reporting of the other specialists involved

Q. So there are certain circumstance Dr. Rogers where the chief medical examiner will perform the examination with you

A. Yes that is correct

Q. Did you believe at first that Mr. Jackson had a respiratory condition that could have been or was a contributing factor to his death

A. At the time I was unable to determine if Mr. Jackson had a condition of the lungs that would have caused or been a contributing factor to his death

Q. Did you have the sequence of events to whether which stopped first, his heart or the breath into his lungs?

A. At the onset of the autopsy, no I don’t think I did….prior to the examination, I didn’t have any information on what actually occurred

Q. At some point did you obtain that information as to which came first?

A. Yes I did

Q. And where did that information come from

A. That information came from Dr. Murray’s statement made to the police. In his statement, Dr. Murray told police that he found Mr. Jackson appearing not to be breathing, but he felt a faint pulse. Mr. Jackson stopped breathing first and then his heart stopped

Q. I want to make sure I understand a previous answer given, did u ever get information that suggested that Dr. Murray wasn’t Mr. Jackson’s only physician

A. Well I was uncertain who his (MJ) primary physician was, and as I understood it he was seeing more than one doctor

Q. Was one of the doctor’s you found out he was seeing, Dr. Arnold Klein

A. Yes he was one of them

Q. Where there any other physician that you knew of that Mr. Jackson was seeing

A. I don’t recall during that period if I knew of another doctor that Mr. Jackson was seeing, information was still coming in

Q. Did you become aware that Dr. Klein was making house calls to Mr. Jackson’s residence?

*Objection Sidebar*

Q. Do you Dr. Rogers know if there was any other doctor that contributed to Mr. Jackson’s death?

A. No I don’t

Q. At the time of autopsy you weigh the deceased, please tell us how this is done

A. When someone first comes into the office they are on gurney, then we put them on a table from which the weighing is done

Q. Do you use this same method in all autopsies?

A. Yes we do, its standard procedure

Q. How often would you say the scale at your office, the coroner’s office is checked

A. I believe it’s checked periodically for accuracy, but I’m not certain of that or its frequency

Q. So to your knowledge the weighing of Mr. Jackson at autopsy was accurate

A. Yes to my knowledge it was

Q. How tall was Mr. Jackson?

A. He was 69 inches when measured that’s 5’9

Q. What is the body mass, proportioned to height weight ratio

A. The body mass index is a measure of body fat based on height and weight. With this calculation we can determine whether we are at our target weight underweight or obese

Q. Do you use a calculator to figure the body mass index out?

A. Actually there is an internet site that I use to get my calculation, you enter height and weight and the BMI is determined

Q. Did you calculate Mr. Jackson’s body mass index in this way and what was the result

A. Yes I calculated Mr. Jackson’s body mass this way and it was 20.1 which is on par with his height and weight

*Shows body index chart*

Q. We put together this chart, showing BMI levels and does this look right so far… an index under 18 would be underweight, an index over 30 is obese and when you measured Mr. Jackson body mass index at 20.1 he was well within range for his height and weight

A. Yes all of that is correct

Q. Did Mr. Jackson look thin to you?

A. Well I guess he looked thin in comparison to other people, I would say so

Q. have you ever done an autopsy on an anorexic person and if so did they look like Mr. Jackson

A. Yes I have performed autopsies on persons suffering from and anorexia and no I would not say that Mr. Jackson looked like any of them

Q. Have you ever performed an autopsy on someone who died of starvation; what are the determining factors of starvation and what does it look like

A. Yes I have examined those who have starved, you can see their bones and there is very little if at all fat underneath the skin

Q. Is their damage to the heart if a person has starved?

A. Absolutely, yes there is noticeable damage

Q. With Mr. Jackson, did you look at his heart to access whether there was damage that starvation to his heart

A. Well I looked at his heart under a microscope during the autopsy and I was able to rule out any damage done to his heart by starvation

Q. Did you see any of other signs of starvation and were you able to rule out starvation as a cause of Mr. Jackson’s death

A. No I saw no other indicating signs of starvation and was able to rule out starvation being the cause of death. It appeared he was in better than average health for someone of his age

Q. Would you say that Mr. Jackson was in excellent health?

A. As far as the autopsy goes I’d say Mr. Jackson was in pretty good health

Q. Dr. Rogers is this why it took so many weeks to determine the cause of death

A. In viewing Mr. Jackson there was no obvious cause of death so we had to do a thorough investigation to find out why he had died

Q. Is a Pathologist a medical specialist that looks at organic tissue on the micro level?

A. That would be correct

Q. In your line of work do you work with Pathologists often?

A. It varies I do work 1ith them and get consult from them from time to time

Q. In the autopsy report, I want to talk with you about the finding of Dr. Sherwin. He was the specialist that looked at Mr. Jackson’s lung specimen for analysis

A. Dr. Sherwin was consulting with our office on this matter we wanted his insight as he is a pulmonary pathologist

Q  Does this properly access damage or lack thereof

A.  , thick slices of organic tissue was taken from Mr. Jackson’s lungs and viewed under a microscopic

Q. In Dr. Sherwin’s report included in Mr. Jackson’s autopsy report, the doctor’s opinion is given based on his findings. Would you agree with it?

From autopsy report: The above findings reflect a depletion of structural and functional reserves of the lung. Reserve depletion this the result of widespread bronchiolitis and chronic lung inflammation in association with fibrocollagenous scars and organizing/recanalizing thromboemboli of all small arteries. It should be noted that the above lung injury with reserve loss is not considered to be a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be especially susceptible to adverse health effects.

Q. We talked about this before when you were here, Dr. Sherwin’s opinion stats that Mr. Jackson’s lungs reflected a depletion of structural and functional reserves as a result of wide spread bronchiolitis and chronic lung inflammation. Was this also your agreement and understanding after reading the report and your examination?

A. I wanted that finding to be conclusive and so Mr. Sherwin was brought in for consult and I do agree with his opinion and findings

Q. Did you ever come to the conclusion of whether or not Mr. Jackson was suffering from any chronic diseases?

A. There was no disease found, that would lead to death directly when Mr. Jackson passed or that would put him on that road in the future. There were no diseases found

Q. So the mentioned lung condition was in no way the cause of Mr. Jackson’s death

A. No it was not it would cause some distress occasionally but nothing that would end his life, he could live quite comfortably. However, in the event of an infection in individuals with this condition it could some complications

Q. We talked about infections in person with this lung condition the last time you were here, is that right

A. Yes we did

Q. In someone who has this lung damage what could happen if they got some type of infection?

A. Well an infection may decrease lung function, as I stated if you’re healthy you can stand this type of condition, if not there will be issue that need attention that will arise

Q. If someone with this same condition that Mr. Jackson had gets pneumonia, would this be a type of infection that would need serious attention over someone with pneumonia that doesn’t already have this underlining condition

A. Yes certainly

Q. I want to talk about the radiological findings in the autopsy report and we can see that you brought in another specialist to access Mr. Jackson’s physiology a radiologist; is that correct

A. We had a radiologist come in and view the slides of Mr. Jackson that we took during the examination post mortem and we asked the radiologist to consult

Q. And a radiologist typical reads x-ray films and MRIs things of this nature, this is their specialty, correct

A. Yes that is correct

Q. The radiologist that came aboard you trust his findings and expert opinion

A. That is correct and Mr. Jackson was found again to be in pretty good health

Q. One of the radiologist findings was that Mr. Jackson had, mild degenerative osteoarthritis of the lower lumbar spine face joints, would you explain that to us in lay terms

A. Well, along Mr. Jackson’s spine in the lower portion of his chest he had little degeneration of the face joints. This would not be his actual face of course, these are the joints that keep the spine together. And these are the joints that provide support, stability, and mobility to the spine. In Mr. Jackson his lower back was affected

Q. Would this condition cause Mr. Jackson not to eat?

A. Conceivably it certainly could, but I doubt it in this case, the findings of denegation were minimal

Q. Does degenerative osteoarthritis of the lumber spin cause pain

A. We are not told how sever the pain was, but yes it could cause pain

Q. In gross degeneration can you say look at a person and tell that they were in pain

A. Yes I suppose so, their posture would be greatly affected the body as a whole would be shifted out of alignment as the spine crumbles

Q. In Mr. Jackson’s case this was not anywhere near that severe, is that correct

A. That is correct

Q. Based on the testimony you are saying that pain could have existed but to best of your knowledge the gradation of the degeneration was at a cope able stage

A. Yes

Q. Mr. Jackson passed away on June 25^th 2009 and you did the autopsy that day and the next and then you sent samples obtained to various specialist for their analysis and consultation, is that right

A. That is true, I had a pulmonary pathologist consult, radiologist consult and an anesthesiologist consult. There was also specialist consulting from neuropathology and odontology.

Q. So once you have reviewed and conferred with all the specialist and taking that with the findings and investigation and of your and the chief medical examiner, you were able to determine the cause of death for Mr. Jackson, is that correct

A. That is correct

Q. Now you were asked before about the diagram in the autopsy report and the marking and what they meant. You were asked about tattooing on the face and scalp. You were also asked about scars around Mr. Jackson’s ears and nose. You were also asked about pigmentation and lack of pigmentation

A. Yes that is all correct

Q. Went through all the marking on Mr. Jackson’s body that was discovered during autopsy, is that correct

A. We did go over all of the markings on the diagram

Q. And none of those things was the cause of death, is that also correct

A. Yes that is correct,

Q. When you began the autopsy, the procedures mentioned were done because they are the standard practice of medical examiners. This examination was not specific to Mr. Jackson initially

A. That’s correct, as result of no known underlying cause of death I referred to other sources for help and a more in depth investigation

Q. We talked earlier that you had a toxicologist on the list of specialist that assisted you, is that right

A. Yes,

Q. Is it typical to bring in a toxicologist if you cannot determine the cause of death in the initial examination of the deceased?

A. We do bring in toxicologists when the cause of death is not readily known after the initial examination

Q. In this medical report of evidence collected right after Mr. Jackson’s death, it states incoming mode natural, what is that?

A. When Fleak first prepared her report, she made an estimate of what she thought the cause of death would be as there were no indications early on of trauma or foul play, and she felt the findings would come back as accident or natural causes

Q. You have ruled Mr. Jackson death a homicide, yet it’s not listed on this report, is that because this is not a homicide or is because this report was prepared by someone other than yourself

A. It was prepared by others and myself

Q. Was there any other cause of death you thought there could be initially before all the reports came back, were there any concerns?

A. I was concerned about drugs being the cause, because of all the drugs found at the scene by Ms. Fleak

Q. Page 2 of our exhibit is a list all the medications first found at the scene prepared by Det. Smith is that correct

A. Yes that is correct

Q. Propofol was added to the list later when it was recovered from the home is that right

A. Yes

Q. With that knowledge and a thorough autopsy investigation, what was the cause of Mr. Jackson’s death?

A. Mr. Jackson’s death, was a homicide death caused by another, by way of acute propofol intoxication with a benzodiazepine affect

Q. What does acute mean

A. It indicates that the concentration of propofol we found in Mr. Jackson’s blood was fatal

Q. Would Mr. Jackson be waiting a long time in this case to die?

A. The levels were fatal, he did not wait

Q. And this wouldn’t be propofol Mr. Jackson accumulated in his system night after night, night

A. These levels were from the one instance given on June 25^th 2009, this was not an accumulation as propofol runs out of the system almost as quickly as it enters

Q. Propofol is an anesthetic given intravenously is that correct

A. Correct

Q. Propofol is given in a hospital setting only and not used for insomnia, is that also correct

A. That is correct

Q. Propofol is not something that can be prescribed and picked up at a pharmacy, is this true

A. Yes that is true

Q. The benzodiazepine affect was found as part of the cause of Mr. Jackson’s death, what are they

A. Benzodiazepines sedate the body’s nervous system by slowing them it down which puts a halt to bodily function

Q. Are benzodiazepines and opiates the same thing

A. No they are generic analgesics, they are anti-anxiety medications, pain reducers and muscle relaxants, they sedate

Q. Were there any opiates found in Mr. Jackson’ system at autopsy

A. No opiates, no Demerol or any type of recreational drug

Q. The benzodiazepines are not the sole cause of death is that accurate?

A. Yes that is correct, propofol was main factor and the benzodiazepines had a contributing affect

Q. How did the benzodiazepines contribute to Mr. Jackson Death?

A.  Well the propofol at the lethal levels found in Mr. Jackson’s body, which were beyond that of undergoing major surgery… made Mr. Jackson’s vital functions stop. The benzodiazepines were working in a similar way by sedating the nervous system and relaxing the muscles, the body had no opportunity to react, to save itself. The propofol and benzodiazepine combination, had an overwhelming effect on Mr. Jackson

Direct Exam Jackson attorney

Q. Now you’ve never seen Mr. Jackson in real life when he was alive have you

A. No I never met Mr. Jackson

Q. So you really wouldn’t have any way of knowing what his normal size and appearance was like

A. No

Q. When described Mr. Jackson as thin, you saw him the day after he had died and rigor mortis had already set in, did it not

A. Yes

Q. How about lavidity, was that already present

A. Yes

Q. From the time Mr. Jackson was found in bed at his residence and seen by the paramedics, had he received treatment, and in ambulance, got to UCLA and received emergency treatment… where lines were put and an aortic pump in and attempt to instigate breathing…do you know he was given any fluids?

A. I believe there were fluids given

Q. Do you know how much fluids were given?

A. No I don’t

Q. Do you know how much those fluids that were given to Mr. Jackson from the time he was found down to the time he arrived in your office, would have contributed to his weight when you weighed Mr. Jackson.

A. Without knowing how much was give, I really couldn’t say

Q. When you saw Mr. Jackson and rigor mortis was present and lavidity had already set in, would you have an indication of how he appeared at his home when he was found not breathing?

A.  No, his appearance, his body consistency… everything had already change by the time I saw Mr. Jackson

Q. Does rigor mortis and lavidity tell you how Mr. Jackson’s death in regards to his weight

A. No, I don’t know what his normal weight should be

Q. Body mass indexes has to do with your weight, right

A. That is correct

Q. You said that you took Mr. Jackson body mass index and you viewed his structure during the autopsy, how much fat did he have

A. Well I don’t think I made measurement of his (MJ) fat

Q. Ok you didn’t measure Mr. Jackson’s body fat, from pure recollections how much would you say he had

A. He didn’t have great deal of fat,

Q. Did Mr. Jackson have muscle mass

A. Yes

Q. What weighs more, muscle or fat

A. Muscle does

Q. It is correct only one lung was sent to the lab for analysis

A. That’s right

Q The lung analyesd they didn’t find anything significant that would effect his health

A. Correct

Q. Would the  Xray findings collaborate there was pain

A. Its only a general finding, no way to tell unless it looks terrible then we would find it caused pain.

Q. And ermm now in terms of his overall health did you feel as far as organs were concerned there were no major findings

A. Correct

No more questions

Stacy Walker Defense witness
Associate Producer

*Judge informs the jury this is to accommodate the schedules of some witnesses, we will go back to the plaintiff witnesses later on*

Direct exam of Stacy walker

First time in trial, don’t be nervous tell the truth as you remember it

Q. What do you do for a living?

A. I am a dancer choreographer director

Q. How long have you been a dancer and choreographer?

A. My whole life. I was a dancer for the first for 2 years professionally only and then transitioned to choreography

Q. Who did you work with during your career?

A. Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, Justin Timberlake and Usher among many others

Q. When was the first time you worked with Michael Jackson

A. The first time was in 1996 on Ghosts

Q. What is Ghosts?

A. A Short film, about 40 minutes long, it’s kind of a new version of the short film Thriller

Q. Did you personally work with Mr. Jackson?

A. During the filming of Ghost it was with Mr. Jackson but from a distance. He was polite and kind to everyone but we didn’t speak

Q. Did you work with Michael Jackson anymore after your time on the set of Ghosts?

A. Yes, on the History Tour, during the second leg of the tour I became one of the dancers

Q. Was the first leg of the tour in December 1996?

A. I don’t remember the exact date when the tour began, but there was a break in January I believe and then I began working the 2^nd leg in April

Q. Was that 1997

A. Yes

Q. Do you remember how many months you were on tour?

A. I think it was roughly 6 months, including rehearsal

Q. What was your role in the tour?

A. I was one of two female dancers for The Way You Make Me Feel, we were all new, me and the other girl   Every time I hear that song, I’m like that’s my song

Q. Don’t you remember when the tour was in France?

A. Yes we rehearsed at Disney Land in France, they had studios then, I remember meeting Michael then when he came to the studio

Q. Did you and the other dancers rehearse alone in LA first and then you went to Disney Land Paris

A. Yes, we rehearsed together all of us dancers there in LA and then it was time to join Mr. Jackson in Paris and that when we began rehearsing at the Disney Land Paris studios

Q. How was it to be on tour with Mr. Jackson?

A. It was great a dream come true, I was really excited to be there.

I’m going to show you footage. *Shows Beat It*

I have one more to show you. *Shows clip from history*

Q. To your recollection is that how Mr. Jackson looked during that tour.

A. Yes

Another clip is shown *They don’t really care clip*

Q. Is this from the History Tour?

A. Yes

Q. Does this clip accurately depict Mr. Jackson?

A. Yes

Q. Did you enjoy working for Mr. Jackson?

A. Yes, he is the most creative artist the world has ever known

Q. Do you remember if Mr. Jackson had a personal doctor or any doctor with him on the History Tour?

A. I don’t remember

Q. Over the course of the History Tour, did you ever suspect Mr. Jackson was using drugs; prescription or otherwise

A. No, not that I remember

Q. So in this clips I showed you is this pretty much, how you saw him Mr. Jackson on the stage

A. Yes, he was amazing watch.

Q. When was the next time after the History Tour that you worked with Mr. Jackson?

A. The next time I worked with Mr. Jackson was on This Is It

Q. How did you got involved with This Is It, who contacted you?

A. I got a call from Travis Payne, I worked with him many times. He told me about This Is IT and asked if I would be the associate produce and I said yes.

Q. Who is Travis Payne?

A. Travis Payne is the head choreographer for the show.

Q. Did Travis Payne work with Mr. Jackson?

A. Yes, he assisted with putting the dance routines together, he is a choreographer

Q. Who was your contract with and who paid you?

A. My contract was with AEG and I think all the money came from AEG, I’m sure AEG

Q. Did you have an understanding as associate producer of what type financial arrangement Michael Jackson had with AEG?

A. No I did not, I am a creative associate producer, I worked with the dancers

Q. Did you receive a contract from anyone other than AEG

A. No

Q. Did you receive and sign a contract with AEG

A. I don’t think I had a signed contract, maybe just a deal to work on This Is It

Q. When did you first start work on This Is It

A. I began working with the show when we began casting for dancers in April of 2009

Q. When was casting for the show finished?

A. We were doing casting all the way up until about a week or so before we started rehearsals

Q. What is an assistant choreographer?

A. I helped Travis Payne with choreography as he is the head choreographer. We taught the dancers the routine.

Q. What is a choreographer?

A. A choreographer not only makes up the dance routine, but also does the staging, lets the dancers and the artist know their mark where they should be, it’s the directing of movement.

Q. Who did you get your directions from?

A. I got my directions from Travis Payne and Mr. Ortega the director of the show

Q. Anyone else give you direction, what directions did Mr. Jackson give you, if he gave any

A. The chorography used for the show was done many years ago, the only new thing added was The Drill. So we all worked together create it

Q. You said that the choreography was already done and created many years ago, did Mr. Jackson create it

A. Yes Mr. Jackson created it many years ago and these routines were used already on his tours. The Thriller and Beat It routine were from his world tour the Bad Tour and had been done previously and on the history tour as well so were not doing that. We were pretty much doing a new version with a new twist, newly inspired for This Is It

Q. You would say that Mr. Jackson knew all this choreography well having created it

A. Yes, he knew all the steps, all committed to memory, he created them

Q. You said that you all worked together to create The Drill, exactly what is that

A. It’s a kind of soldier military style of dance. Mr. Jackson was very excited about it and it had to be best ever. He talked about directions to be called during the drill and even incorporating a color guard. We talked about Michael using rifles as part of the military scenes. But Mr. Jackson said no guns, not good for kids. There was a whole lot of excitement at Center Staging during the drill sessions.

Q. Is Center Staging where rehearsals were held during May of 2009

A. Yes

Q. Then in June rehearsals were held at the Forum, is that correct

A. Yes

Q. And at the very end of rehearsal they were held at the Staples Center

A. Yes

Q. During the period where rehearsalswere held at Center Staging, did you work with Mr. Jackson on The Drill and how often was he there?

A. Can’t remember how many times he was there, not there much. I didn’t work with him much, my assistant and I were teaching young dancers during that time, the priority was teaching them about the dangers of carelessness when dancing

Q. At the Forum, was Mr. Jackson schedule to be there for rehearsal more than he actually showed?

A. Yes

Q. Did you work with Mr. Jackson when he did show up for rehearsal?

A. Yes, but I didn’t work with him one on one.  Generally Travis Payne would work with him one on one there or at his home. My job was more concentrated on getting the dancers up to speed

Q. So you were in charge of the dancers

A. Yes

Q. And was there a time at the Forum when Michael not show up regularly, as scheduled

A. Yes

Q. Tell me about that,

A. I don’t remember how many times he came or not, it’s difficult. I remember being frustrated at the time, when we thought he would come and he didn’t. But I don’t remember how many times he came

Q. Did you have understanding why Mr. Jackson didn’t come?

A. no

Q. I want you to take your mind back to June, did you think hey he’s not here, did you speculate

A. I think I was thinking you know, from previous experience, he likes other artist who doe stuff on their own. And that gets integrated into the rest of the show. I was not shocked, was irritated

Q. So you thought he was rehearsing on his own

A. Sure or he wanted to be his kids

Q. So you didn’t know about health problems

A. No I never see him sick

Q. When he came (MJ) to rehearsal did he look normal or intoxicated

A. He looked normal, he was thinner then I knew him before, but I never saw him intoxicated

Q. You said he was thinner than when you worked with him in 1997, when you saw him in April ‘09 did he look different

A. Yes much thinner

Q. Did you know how much weight he lost between April and June?

A. I didn’t notice a dramatic change, he was always thin

Q. Did he complain to you ever about anything?

A. No

Q. Did anyone suggest that he should have a physical therapist?

A. No

Q. Do you remember one night at the Forum where Mr. Jackson was not feeling well and he excused himself to his room?

A. He went to his room, he didn’t say he wasn’t feeling it was understood by everyone

Q. Do you recall Michael being usually cold?

A. I remember him always wearing lots of jackets. I didn’t think of him being insanely cold because many performers like different temperatures. Some like to be to be hot, some like to wear more clothes. He wore lots of jackets, I could assume he was cold, I never knew he was, I never saw him shivering

Q. Did you ever see Mr. Jackson drink alcohol?

A. No never

Q. Did you ever see him (MJ) under the influence of alcohol or anything else?

A. No

Q. And do you remember being concerned about Michael’s health prior to his passing

A. No, I just wished that he would eat more. It was tough to see while I was in it, now I have a different prospective, I wasn’t looking for things then, I wish I was

Q. Did you attend the rehearsal on June 23^rd and 24^th tell me about them?

A.  They were great, Michael came. I don’t remember the order, we did a half show the first night and he was great in the numbers. I finally saw what I wanted to and then I called my mom to get tickets to opening night because I was relived,

Q. How was Michael that night?

A. He was great, sassy, and bratty, like he normally is

Q. Did he joke with the cast?

A. He was not joking with the cast, but he’d punch the camera and be funny, then say it’s all for love. He was so sweet, I would laugh at things like that

Q. After the last two shows, on the 23^rd and 24^th, how did you feel about them?

A. I was feeling good during process. He wasn’t coming and he was there. I was delighted, happy about that we was seeing the whole picture

Q. Did you have any doubt that Michael could perform these show?

A. Not after that night

Q. What happened the next day, June 25^th?

A. I was on stage rehearsing with the dancers and Kenny was rehashing Michael’s disappearing act. Travis called me and said isn’t it amazing what’s going on. I said rehearsing. He says no what’s going on as he hearing on the radio about Michael in his car. He asked me to go find Kenny. I found Kenny and he said, I know I heard he’s been taken to the hospital and Kenny told me to tell Travis just to come to the Staples Center

Q. Was Mr. Payne scheduled to rehearse with Michael that day at his home?

A. Yes he was on his way over there when he heard

Q. What was your reaction when Michael Died?

A. I went into motherly mode, telling the dancers don’t worry, its ok, I didn’t believe it

Q. You didn’t believe it

A. I not that I didn’t believe that he wasn’t in hospital. I just thought that he would be ok

Q. Where you surprised when he passed away?

A. Yes I was… we were just all there the last two nights and it had been great and we just did Thriller and Beat It and then he was just gone

Q. Did you know who Dr. Murray was?

A. Yes

Q. Did you remember seeing him there ever?

A. No I didn’t

Q. Had you heard that Michael was bringing a doctor on tour

A. Yes that’s pretty common, didn’t know for a fact, but I thought so

Q. I want to ask you a little about some people on the rehearsal floor with, do you know Paul Gongaware and where from

A. Yes he was there and I know him from the History Tour

Q. How often did you see Paul Gongaware at rehearsals?

A. I don’t know, I remember seeing him at the Forum more and don’t remember seeing him at Center Staging. He may have been there. At the forum he had an office outside rehearsals but I didn’t see him daily or anything

Q. Did you ever speak with him about Michael’s health?

A. Yes

Q. Did you see Mr. Phillips?

A. Yes more at the Forum

Q. Did you have an understanding of who he was?

A. Yes the big boss

Q. Did you interact with him?

A. With my job, it was just hi, how you doing. We didn’t work together

Q. You talked about Travis Payne, and what was your understanding of Mr. Payne and Mr. Jackson’s relationship.

A. They had been working together for a very long time, they had a loving relationship. Travis worked with Michael and I worked with the dancers.

Q. What was a typical rehearsal day like when Michael was there with the dancers?

A. Generally at night, I don’t remember the exact times but it was in the evenings

Q. So about one… ten or eleven

A. Travis would rehearse with Michael earlier around one at his house and then when they (MJ & Payne) were in different rooms

Q. Do you know Karen Faye

A. Yes

Q. Did you interact with Karen Faye

A. No I just saw her around

Q. Wasn’t she on the same tour as you, the History Tour

A. No she was on the first leg of that tour, not the same leg as me, which was the second leg

Q. So you are saying that she was no longer on the tour when you began work on the History Tour

A. Yes she was no longer apart of the tour and we had someone else doing the makeup

Q. What was your impression of Mr. Jackson this time in comparison to when you worked with him before?

A. It was fun for me this time, he was opening up more, on Ghost we didn’t talk, he was so kind, really nice, but I didn’t talk to him. On the History Tour I remember talking to him about McDonald’s during rehearsal one day and I found that he had never been and I told him he must go. On This Is It, we got they were special to me in hindsight

Q. Was it your understanding that Mr. Jackson was excited about doing This Is It

A. He always looked happy when he watched the dancers he’d pick a few out and say oh they’re good. I could tell that he really enjoyed the process of putting the show together, he was so in to it. I don’t know how he felt about performing

Q. Would you say that Mr. Jackson was a private person?

A. Yes I would and I think that anyone who ever spent time around him would agree. In my experience while working with him the conversations we had were fun and light, he didn’t share anything with me. He seemed very private

Q. Guarded

A. I’d say guarded is a strong word, he shared Michael Jackson not Michael and understandably so… look who he is, he is so famous, the moist famous man in the world, he should be

Q. During those last nights on June 23^rd and 24^th was there anything in your mind or was there anything that you saw that put in your mind that Mr. Jackson was going to die

A. I never in a millions years would have thought he (MJ) would have left us, passed away. Not once during that period, when we were all preparing for the show, did his dying become a thought in my mind. I was nervous at times during the production process about the show itself, but never…I don’t know maybe I’m just a positive person, seeing the glass half full, never though it would happen, never thought he would die.

Q. Including the time you worked together in 1997 on the History Tour was the night when Mr. Jackson went back to his room, to you understanding was the only time he was sick

A. I don’t remember him ever being sick during the times I’ve worked with him, not a cold, not a stomach flu… nothing

Q. To your understanding, have you ever seen Mr. Jackson under the influence of drugs?

A. No never and I have seen people drunk and high and Mr. Jackson never appeared that way

Ms. Stebbins: Thank you no more question

Cross examination by Jackson attorney Kevin Boyle

Q. Now Ms. Walker as you stated on direct exam, your job was to focus on the dancers, so it is fair statement to say your attention was only on the dancers and not on Mr. Jackson is that correct

A. Yes that is correct my job was to teach the dancers the choreography and get them up to speed for the show

Q. Where you there when Paul Gongaware was having contract negotiations with Dr. Murray

A. No I was not

Q. It was not your job to make sure that Dr. Murray was doing his job was it

A. No it was not, I didn’t not become aware of who Dr. Murray was until after June 25th

Q. And you were not looking to see if there were signs that Mr. Jackson was in trouble or that anything was ailing him, correct

A. That is correct that was not my job to gauge Mr. Jackson’s health

Q. You were not the boss of Randy Phillips, isn’t that correct as well

A. No I was not Mr. Phillips’ boss, we did not work together. I worked with the dancers

Q.  You were not working on This Is It as someone that would oversee the production of entire show

A. That is correct I didn’t oversee the show

Q. So it wasn’t Ms. Walker you job to do that of the president of AEG Live which is Mr. Randy Phillips

A. No I am not the president I am the associate producer/choreographer of the show

Q. Ms. Walker you don’t have any medical training now do you

A. I don’t

Q. The last rehearsals that took place on the 23^rd and 24^th of June, you don’t have any information as to whether or not Dr. Murray had given Mr. Jackson propofol on these days

A. I have no knowledge of Dr. Murray or his actions

Q. You said that you were relieved when you saw Mr. Jackson had come to rehearsal

A. I was relieved when showed up because he hadn’t been coming. We dancers reserve our energy and so he would say that he was going full out. During the last two night of rehearsal he was in full force and we got see the show as it would be

Q. You’re a perfectionist, have a good background in dance and choreography, would you say that it’s necessary for a dancer to rehearse, should Mr. Jackson have been at rehearsals

A. yes Mr. Jackson should have been at rehearsal more even though he was rehearsing at home with Travis Payne

Q. Did you know that Dr. Murray had kept Mr. Jackson home from rehearsal before?

A. I was unaware of that

Q. Ms. Walker you’re from Minnesota right and you attended college is there anything else you’ve done career wise other than dance

A. I am from Minnesota and when I went college, I majored in communications and psychology, so I got job in marketing for 4 years and then I quit and went into dancing. I never stopped dancing

Q. Your big break Ms. Walker would you says was when you got the part in Ghost

A. Yes of course to me of course, I was working before that, but that was absolutely my big break and my first job in LA

Q. The Ghost short film was about 40 minutes

A. Yes it was

* A clip of Ghost is played*

Q. I want to ask you if you can point out where you are, when you part comes

A. Ok

Q. Whose that *points to MJ playing the mayor in the Ghost into*

A. That’s Mr. Jackson

Q. Do you see yourself in the Ghost Intro?

A. No I was new I wasn’t there in this part

Q. Is it easier to see Travis Payne?

A. I will try my best pick him out

Mr. Boyle shows more of the clip and Ms. Walker is on Michael’s left

Q. Do you see what was going on here, it’s very technical the routines have lost movement, was this hard to learn and how long did it take to film Ghost?

A. It was the hardest job I’d ever had to that point, we filmed for 4 months and it was a lot to retain in terms of the routine and there was makeup and costumes and direction and timing, it was a short film

Q. Where you impressed with Mr. Jackson dancing

A. Who isn’t, he was great, just amazing to watch in person

Q. What made Mr. Jackson a great dancer to you?

A. He was a huge risk taker and that pushed boundaries with his movement, he was an innovator in dance, strong and very confident. He was an exceptional dancer, no one moves like him.

Q. Would you agree that Mr. Jackson giving you your big break as you said had a huge impact on your career

A. Yes absolutely

Break

Q. So it wasn’t your job to look out for Mr. Jackson

A. No

Q. It was never your job to look out for Mr. Jackson, I want to be clear, is that right.

A. No it was never my job to look out for Mr. Jackson

*A clip of This Is it is shown*

Mr. Boyle, they are excited

*shows dancers*

Q. Is that you Ms. Walker there in this scene?

A. Yes that’s me

Q. Here you are talking about requirement for the dancers to be selected for the production, correct

A. That is correct

Plays clips again where the court sees a meeting regarding the males dancers, they have to be at least very close to Michael’s height 5’10…5’11. They must also be seasoned as Michael is very appealing.

Q. So Ms. Walker there were specific requirements for the This Is It dancers

A. Yes they were, they had to be able to hold up to Mr. Jackson, which has not been discovered in a dancer as of yet, so they had to at least look good trying.

Q. You had roughly 5,000 applicants for This Is It, these dancers vying for the greatest opportunity of their life

A. I’m not sure of the definite count, but they were narrowed down to 11

Q. When the dancers showed up for audition, did they also have a resume

A. Yes they did bit that was not given to me

Q. You wanted best dancers possible to take the stage with Mr. Jackson and that has an impressive resume

A. We talent and raw energy, the resume was definitely important as we wanted to know who they worked for what was their training was and experience if they had any. They would need to be able to handle the full scale of a dancer on Mr. Jackson’s caliber

Q. Do you know you know if AEG did anything to check into Dr. Murray’s resume?

A. No I do not

*Objection foundation*

Q. Let’s talk about your working Mr. Jackson on the tour, can you give me an estimate of how many times you interacting with him, based on counsel questioning, it would be about 3 or 4 times is that right

A. Yes hello and goodnight, that’s really about it, which was a lot

Q. Are you and Mr. Jackson friends

A. No, we work together

Q. How about outside of work, are you friends then

A. No

Q. So it’s safe to say that you have just a professional relation

A. Yes we spoke at rehearsals sometimes and I consulted The Drill dance sequence

Q. So you have never been to his home or socialized in a group setting outside of rehearsal with other cast or have dinner together

A. No

Q. Did he ever speak to you about his health?

A. No we didn’t have those types of conversation when we did speak, we exchanged pleasantries

Q. When Mr. Jackson showed up to rehearsals, dressed in layers and wrapped in blankets he didn’t discuss with you his being extremely cold

A. No not at all

* A picture is entered as an exhibit of Michael with shoulder pads on at his last fitting

Q. This pic was taken June 19^th as stated in testimony, do you remember this picture

A. Yes, but I wasn’t there at the fitting

Q. Isn’t the weight of Mr. Jackson in this picture extremely thin?

A. I don’t know for him, but yes this is very thin and he has layers on

*Another exhibit is entered by Mr. Boyle, it’s a pic of a shot from a surveillance video*

Q. There has been testimony about the last night of Mr. Jackson’s life when he is leaving the Staples Center on June 24^th 2009. It show shows Mr. Jackson wearing a black blanket, do you recall seeing him covered in a blanket

A. No, I didn’t see him leave

Q. Your job was not to focus on Mr. Jackson… what he was doing, what he was wearing, when he left… if he was feeling well

A. No, I was probably still on stage rehearsing the dancers and it was not my job to be focused on him

Q. Now I know you got associate producer credit on the move This Is It, but you didn’t work on the editing of that movie, did you

A. No

Q. You didn’t attend the final meeting for This Is It after Mr. Jackson Died?

A. It was not a meeting, it was invitation to go watch, don’t know if it was the initial screening or if it was the rough cut of what they had so far

Q. Did Mr. Phillips instruct Paul Gongaware to edit out all of the footage from This Is It, where he felt Mr. Jackson looked like a skeleton?

A. I don’t know anything about that, he didn’t tell me anything like that

Q. So Ms. Walker you were not involved in the editing or the removal of rehearsal footage from the This Is It package

********?

Q. Did Mr. Ortega tell you that Mr. Jackson was so cold that he shivering and that he cut his food and fed him with his fingers?

A. I had heard about the incident from someone but I didn’t see it with my own eyes nor did Mr. Ortega tell me about the incident

Q. So you didn’t see this with your own eyes but this did take place at the Forum, right

A. I think was it was the Forum but I don’t know for certain, I didn’t see it happening I heard about it as after fact

Q. Karen way for example, I imagine Karen Faye had a friendly relationship with Mr. Jackson was that your understanding

A.I don’t know her, I have seen her, I wouldn’t know the nature of their relationship

Q. Did you ever Mr. Jackson sitting rehearsal with a blanket on and a space heater near by

A. I never saw Mr. Jackson with a blanket on or him sitting with a heater

Q. Did you ever see anyone else during rehearsal with a blanket on?

A. No

Q. During rehearsal for This Is it, the shows that you all were preparing for, during the days at the Forum this took place during the summer of June 2009

A. Yes it was the summer

Q. No before you started work for This Is It you had heard that Mr. Jackson have having problems with prescription drugs

A. Yes I had heard that, everyone in the industry heard that and I saw it in the press

Q. You also heard that Mr. Jackson had problems sleeping

A. Yes I had already heard that as well

I’d like to show you and exhibit and Mr. Boyle shows Ms. Walker and email, shows

AEG objection, lacks foundation. Boyle states that the witness never saw the email and that what I was going to ask her. Judge sustained

Q. Now on this email chain it’s forwarded on June 14th, from Travis Payne to Mr. Ortega and others. Are you copied on that email as the assistant choreographer and associate producer?

A. No I don’t think

Q. So do you think that Travis Payne and Mr. Ortega tell you everything?

A. I don’t know, I supposed not

Q. Did Mr. Ortega ever tell you that Mr. Jackson need guidance and that he was slow at grabbing hold of work for the show?

A. I don’t know if he told me those words, I know he wanted Mr. Jackson to be comfortable and wanted him eating. I think they had a massage therapist come in for him

Q. If Mr. Ortega told this to Mr. Gongaware would he be telling the truth?

AEG Objection

Q. When you were thinking everything was ok, you didn’t know there were emails going around about Mr. Jackson health

A. No I did not know

Q. Is it fair to says that Mr. Ortega had more interaction with Mr. Jackson then you did

A. Yes that is fair to say

Q. And are you currently working for the Immortal Cirque du Soleil

A. I was working for them I am no longer

Q. What is the Immortal Cirque Di Soleil?

A. It is a circus act with aerialist and acrobats all based on Mr. Jackson’s music

Q. Did you and Travis Payne choreograph or assist in any way the Immortal Cirque du Soleil show

A. Yes we worked on part of it and some of the choreography

Q. Do you think the Cirque shows would be more successful if Mr. Jackson were in them?

*AEG objection*

Q. Based on you experience, do you think there was a demand for Mr. Jackson and that people wants to see him

A. Yes I believe so he show runs were going to be sold out

Q. So you know there is another show that has been developed and based on Mr. Jackson

A. Yes, I believe you are talking about Michael Jackson One

Q. Are you Ms. Walker involved in Michael Jackson One as well?

A. No not really I am doing a little producing, but that’s about it

Q. There show is now settled at the Mandalay Bay in Los Vegas, seems like there is a high demand for this show

A. Yes, that’s what it looks like it



Alright Ms. Walker, that you very much